[bid_em_up]

Was there a point to this thread?

Passing is horrendous. There is no other way of putting it.

[kayin801]

I would like to have opponents who pass like that every time because I'm fairly sure I would score a 90% on those hands.

[rduran1216]

bid_em_up, on Aug 12 2010, 11:25 AM, said:

Was there a point to this thread?

Passing is horrendous. There is no other way of putting it.

How?

give partner

x
Axxx
Jxx
Kxxxx

or

Kx
Kxxx
Qxx
Qxxx

or

x
10xxxx
Kxx
KQxx

or

Jx
AKxx
xxx
Kxxx

or

ok here's a bad hand partner could make a dbl with

xx
Kxxxx
Jxx
QJx



at these colors putting up 500 or 200 will probably be good, and with the spade lead coming I'm gonna have options to find the right defense.

[jdonn]

Yeah give partner x xxxx AQJT8 xxx and you will be glad you passed a takeout double with xx of the suit!

[aguahombre]

bid_em_up, on Aug 12 2010, 10:25 AM, said:

Was there a point to this thread?

Yes. To ask a question, get a pretty much unanimous answer, and then to disagree with the answer.

Bonus: to show how doing something against the odds worked at the table and to warn future partners not to make negative doubles when they can overstate their values with a freebid or just raise the major with a doubleton.

[rduran1216]

jdonn, on Aug 12 2010, 12:17 PM, said:

Yeah give partner x xxxx AQJT8 xxx and you will be glad you passed a takeout double with xx of the suit!

the hands I put for partner are very reasonable.

giving S

Kx
Kx
AQ10xxx
Qxx

or

x
Kxx
AKQxxx
Jxx

or

Jxx
Axx
KQJxx
Kx

or

x
Kx
AQJxxx
QJxx

and we're gonna set 2D at these colors.

North's hand turned out to be about as good as it could, as with a true neg x, my partner would have the A of hearts, or K of spades or both, now 500 is good.

[matmat]

rduran1216, on Aug 12 2010, 11:52 AM, said:

bid_em_up, on Aug 12 2010, 11:25 AM, said:

Was there a point to this thread?

Passing is horrendous.  There is no other way of putting it.

How?

give partner

x
Axxx
Jxx
Kxxxx

or

Kx
Kxxx
Qxx
Qxxx

or

x
10xxxx
Kxx
KQxx

or

Jx
AKxx
xxx
Kxxx

or

ok here's a bad hand partner could make a dbl with

xx
Kxxxx
Jxx
QJx



at these colors putting up 500 or 200 will probably be good, and with the spade lead coming I'm gonna have options to find the right defense.

what do all of these hands have in common?

[jdonn]

Wow how disingenuous to say "north's hand turned out about as good as it could", he had a singleton diamond and Kxx of spades!

[rduran1216]

jdonn, on Aug 12 2010, 12:33 PM, said:

Wow how disingenuous to say "north's hand turned out about as good as it could", he had a singleton diamond and Kxx of spades!

He also had AK of hearts.

I think there are a significan portion of hands where pass here is right. Maybe not the absolute best % play, but with S likely to have the K of hearts I can't see, with a likelihood my partner has at least one diamond trick coming, with RHO's waiting that felt like a desire to xx and run.

[jjbrr]

jjbrr, on Aug 11 2010, 10:57 PM, said:

lol?

..

[cherdanno]

Passing is extremely bad.
Of course, if North is really so clueless to give away he has a singleton diamond then it may be right. But passing with Norths' hand is really really obvious, so if your table feel is good enough to work out the difference between this pass, and a pass where he considered raising, or a decent hand with a doubleton, then your table feel must be so great that I am sure you constantly win the pairs events you enter.

[jdonn]

Congratulations on reading the soul of your rho, in that case why did you ask for confirmation from us about whether pass was unspeakable or not?

[mikeh]

Late to the thread and arguably guilty of 'piling on', but to the OP...did you post this to show what a genius you are or to try to learn something?

If the former, sorry...I think it is unanimous that passing the double is one of the worst calls posted on this forum in a long time. It is partnership-destroying action.

If the latter...why all the replies trying to justify a stupid call?

In any given competitive auction it will usually be possible to construct a variety of hands that would justify an unusual position. So what?

Many people buy lottery tickets, even tho, statistically, doing so is equivalent to setting fire to most of the (paper) money you spend on tickets. We do so because we can construct layouts on which our ticket wins, and we lack the intuitive ability (well, most of us do, including me) to appreciate just how improbable it is that we will win.

In a similar vein, if we start thinking, at the table, about hands that will justify an action we are already thinking of taking, we will mislead ourselves into thinking that such hands are common.

Why couldn't partner hold Kx K10xxx xx Jxxx...and have declarer with xx Axx AKJxxx Kx and dummy with the Qxx in diamonds? An easy overtrick on any defence.

I won't go on...but it is as easy for me to create losing layouts as it is for you to create winning ones.....I'd go further....since in my view there are a lot more losing layouts than winning ones, it would be easier for me than for you.

As for reading the table action, it makes me laugh. To infer that North was worried about a misfit is flat out silly. Maybe N was thinking about raising! Or redoubling! Unless you are a mind-reader, your 'reading' of the table action was as compromised by confirmation bias as is your ability to construct typical hands.

[rduran1216]

i would be curious about the actual percentage of hands where you will get 2/500 versus the times its gonna be wrapped around your neck. Until then its just speculation, and thats with throwing out the context clues at the table.

[rduran1216]

jdonn, on Aug 12 2010, 01:04 PM, said:

Congratulations on reading the soul of your rho, in that case why did you ask for confirmation from us about whether pass was unspeakable or not?

just sharing a hand from the previous day, but this isn't the first time I've found success in a pass with a spot like this, only at these colors would it even be considered, and yes I can get a fat zero perhaps a majority of the time, but feelings about hands shouldn't be ignored.

[mikeh]

rduran1216, on Aug 12 2010, 01:50 PM, said:

i would be curious about the actual percentage of hands where you will get 2/500 versus the times its gonna be wrapped around your neck.  Until then its just speculation, and thats with throwing out the context clues at the table.

you seem to be falling into a very familiar pattern...one I think most of us fall victim to at some point...you made a bad call, got a lucky result, have convinced yourself that you are a genius and can't accept that, to the posters on this forum, you made a terrible, terrible call.

There is no point in arguing with someone caught in this mindset...the correctness of your position is an article of faith with you right now....it's like debating a young earth creationist on evolution

[Phil]

Hi welcome to the forums (sort of).

Occasionally we get a newer player (new to here anyway) that posts a hand that essentially seeks justification. They know that it is unusual, and it might or might not contain a kernel of truth.

Then the ritual hazing begins....

Re: passing 2♣ x'd. There is no way that you can put RHO on a misfit and partner on a stack. Maybe (s)he has an 8 count with a doubleton club picture? Maybe Hx of clubs with a spade stop? Maybe RHO is a weak player that doesn't know they are allowed to raise clubs on a 7 count and support. Maybe none of this is true, but LHO has a really good overcall and wraps it, or we get 200 and 4♠ makes.

If I owned my LHO lock, stock and barrel, and I needed a swing, and someone had keyed my car that afternoon and I was in a pissy mood, then I might pass. But I haven't taken a position like this in years, and don't feel like my game is worse for it.

Clee gave some good reasons why a lot of your reasoning is faulty. You would be doing well if you listened to Clee.

[gwnn]

Nobody agrees with your pass, no matter how much you argue for it, it is unspeakably absurd to pass out a 2-level takeout double with a good 6 card major and absolutely nothing in trumps, you need to keep playing bridge no matter how:

• green you are
  
• red your opponents are
  
• sure you are of RHO's read
  
• bad LHO's overcalls are
  
• much UI you got from your partner

[jukmoi]

All of us can defeat 2♦. None of us (so far) would pass.

[pooltuna]

mikeh, on Aug 12 2010, 01:27 PM, said:

Late to the thread and arguably guilty of 'piling on', but to the OP...did you post this to show what a genius you are or to try to learn something?

If the former, sorry...I think it is unanimous that passing the double is one of the worst calls posted on this forum in a long time. It is partnership-destroying action.

If the latter...why all the replies trying to justify a stupid call?

[snip]

And I thought he was volunteering to be a subject in our "Is ESP really UI thread? "