[mike777]

Just got an email from the club manager.
My new pickup Partner for Tuesday just cancelled.

Now have another new pickup player for Tuesday.

[jillybean]

This is the worst aspect of the game by miles.

[mikl_plkcc]

akwoo, on 2025-February-17, 16:05, said:

There is no substitute for looking over the hands afterwards and determining if you actually should've set their contract. Are there hand records? If not, can you copy down a hand or two after the game?

But it's true that a lot of beginners don't compete enough - to some extent you can mastermind and compete for a timid partner, but that's not a good way to learn.

The club field is not a beginners field and my partner has commented that there are very aggressive competition in the auction that he can't understand.

[P_Marlowe]

mikl_plkcc, on 2025-February-18, 04:49, said:

The club field is not a beginners field and my partner has commented that there are very aggressive competition in the auction that he can't understand.

Competitive bidding is hard.

A quick glance at your starting post, reveals several conventions, but none relevant for competitive seq.

[mike777]

ok Just got back from my 4th f2f game, it was MP 27 boards.
Played with a new pickup partner.
We hit my goal of an over 50% game with 53%, ya, ya ya


We had 3 bottoms and 3 tied for bottoms
We had 4 tops and 2 tied for tops.

Of the 6 terrible boards

I think 3 were from partner overvaluing his hand or at least me expecting more...smile
1 was from partner wanting to play support doubles but not fully understanding how to bid them in a competitive auction 


the last 2 were my being overly aggressive/too active on defense, underleading aces..that sort of thing...and giving up overtricks in an effort to beat the hand.

Looking at the hands improving declarer and defensive play would turn average boards, into above average...

Still waiting to see if that pickup team of 4 qualified for the next level of the Grand National Teams, sent an email asking but no response...
the team may not even go to the district level, it is a 3 hour drive or so to another state...but it would be nice to know if we at least qualified or not..

[johnu]

mikl_plkcc, on 2025-February-16, 14:22, said:

How hard actually is it to break even at a club game. Given my description above, what should we work on to achieve the break even point in the club?

Does your club have hand records, and results by hand available?

Post a few of them where you know you didn't make a clear misbid or misplay and you'll get some suggestions on how to do better.

[mikl_plkcc]

johnu, on 2025-February-18, 20:47, said:

Does your club have hand records, and results by hand available?

Post a few of them where you know you didn't make a clear misbid or misplay and you'll get some suggestions on how to do better.

https://www.bridgewe...ub=youngchelsea

---

We sat E/W. Half of the field played in 3♠ or 4♠ going down but our table played in 2♠ making, which DD agrees.

---

We sat E/W. We played in our 9-card fit 3♦ but went down 1, while most people were in 7-card fit 2♠ making. DD says that both ♦ and ♠ made 2 only.

I can't remember exactly if the bidding is described as above, but I think they didn't intervene.

---

We sat E/W. I can't remember exactly the bidding sequence, the above was the most likely reconstruction how it ended up. We let them play 3♥ because we didn't have 9 ♠ to compete to 3♠, and got -1 (+50 only), but 3♠ also made.

---

This was not a lose for us (we got 0.00 IMPs for setting them a trick), but one other table went 3 down in the same contract; and two other tables went 3 down in 1NT undoubled played by north as well.

[P_Marlowe]

#1 2S just, ... nothing you can do
#2 2S showes 6+, majors beat minors, I dont think bidding 3D is wrong,
but even finding Qx with opener did not improve your score, i.e.
passing 2S is a real alternative
#3 Holding inv. values, West never showed those values, their heart fit
improved his hand, the single in their suit is a plus, why did he
let them play 3H?
#4 -2 is a realistic result, 3H, 3D, 1C makes 6 tricks for you,
work on your defense

[awm]

A few points about partscore bidding at IMPs:

1. If you are in a competitive auction and it’s possible that opponents partial and your partial are both making, you need to compete. This is especially true when you are not vulnerable. It rarely pays to let opponents play two of a suit when they have a real fit and you are non-vulnerable. Even if they can in principle double you and extract 300, they will rarely do so at IMPs (where doubling a making partial into game is a massive disaster). This explains the first and third boards, where I think your side needs to push more in the competitive auction.

2. If opponents are not in the auction and you don’t have a game, it’s often best to get out as low as possible, rather than trying a level higher in the hope of finding a better fit. On the second hand, 2s making when 3d fails is not a shock, and you only really win when 3d makes and 2s fails (rare since you’re a level up). Just pass 2s and hope to make it.

On the last board I must admit that I would not have doubled 1nt on the east cards, which seems like asking for trouble on a balanced 12. But you caught partner with a good hand this time and you just need to take your tricks on defense for a great result. As long as you don’t give them anything there are three hearts and three diamonds and a club (plus a possible trump promotion if you do everything right). Most likely the defense started with spade ten lead to the king and ace, and opponents managed three spades and four clubs? In general it’s often safe to lead a trumps against auctions like this, let declarer try to play the hand as if it were notrump, and that should get you an easy 500 at least.

[mike777]

Very helpful ty

[hrothgar]

One point that you need to consider

From the looks of things, you're playing at the Young Chelsea...

This might explain why you're scoring poorly, especially as a relatively new player with pick up partners.

[AL78]

awm, on 2025-February-20, 09:30, said:

A few points about partscore bidding at IMPs:

1. If you are in a competitive auction and it’s possible that opponents partial and your partial are both making, you need to compete. This is especially true when you are not vulnerable. It rarely pays to let opponents play two of a suit when they have a real fit and you are non-vulnerable. Even if they can in principle double you and extract 300, they will rarely do so at IMPs (where doubling a making partial into game is a massive disaster). This explains the first and third boards, where I think your side needs to push more in the competitive auction.

How do you suggest they should have got into the auction and competed the part score on the first board?

[mw64ahw]

The way I play
#1 1♠-2♠ pre-emptive. Not sure I would be competing as West although playing ELC a X followed by 3♦ at this vulnerability may work.

#2 1♠-1N-2♥ (6♠ or 4+♥ strong)]-2♠. Ill play in the Moysian especially with a quick trick to contribute.

#3 With 7.5 mod. losers I would compete to at least the 3-level and possibly 4♠ going down 1 against a flat hand.

#4 I pass or show both Majors. X for me would be ♣ in 4th seat. If X shows these values then its just a crap shoot.

[awm]

 AL78, on 2025-February-20, 10:16, said:

How do you suggest they should have got into the auction and competed the part score on the first board?

I would act with the west hand (whether to double or bid 2nt depends on style, as does whether to remove 3c after double). Note that this is a case where 3dX can go for 300, but opponents have to find the double and defend intelligently. It wouldn’t surprise me if they end up just pushing to 3s in practice.

[mikl_plkcc]

awm, on 2025-February-20, 09:30, said:

On the last board I must admit that I would not have doubled 1nt on the east cards, which seems like asking for trouble on a balanced 12. But you caught partner with a good hand this time and you just need to take your tricks on defense for a great result. As long as you don’t give them anything there are three hearts and three diamonds and a club (plus a possible trump promotion if you do everything right). Most likely the defense started with spade ten lead to the king and ace, and opponents managed three spades and four clubs? In general it’s often safe to lead a trumps against auctions like this, let declarer try to play the hand as if it were notrump, and that should get you an easy 500 at least.

mw64ahw, on 2025-February-20, 10:36, said:

The way I play
#1 1♠-2♠ pre-emptive. Not sure I would be competing as West although playing ELC a X followed by 3♦ at this vulnerability may work.

#2 1♠-1N-2♥ (6♠ or 4+♥ strong)]-2♠. Ill play in the Moysian especially with a quick trick to contribute.

#3 With 7.5 mod. losers I would compete to at least the 3-level and possibly 4♠ going down 1 against a flat hand.

#4 I pass or show both Majors. X for me would be ♣ in 4th seat. If X shows these values then its just a crap shoot.

On the last board, at the balancing position. holding a 12 count means I was obliged to act against a weak notrump. Partner might have as high as 14-15 and lacks an appropriate overcall. The DD result was our (E/W) 3NT making although no one could bid it.

A call at a balancing position is, in general, a king weaker than at the direct position, so a direct double on 15 points becomes a balancing double on 12.

P.S. When I compete at partscore I only bid with an intention to make the contract, especially when vulnerable. -100 vs -110 is 0 IMPs, and if they dared to double me and got -1, -200 vs -110 is -3 IMPs, -2 would be the whole night ruined.

Even at the game level, even if we KNOW that their 4♠ is making, bidding 5♥ in advance to shut off the opponent's communication isn't really a good idea because the other tables might not even compete to 4♠ over our making 4♥!

hrothgar, on 2025-February-20, 10:07, said:

One point that you need to consider

From the looks of things, you're playing at the Young Chelsea...

This might explain why you're scoring poorly, especially as a relatively new player with pick up partners.

Yes I am playing there. It is the closest EBU club to where I live, which offers IMP pairs on a schedule good to me.

[DavidKok]

DavidKok, on 2025-February-16, 14:53, said:

Most of all, be open to advice from other players, especially if it disagrees with something you already know.

You've got a long way to go. Best of luck!

[akwoo]

mikl_plkcc, on 2025-February-20, 11:46, said:

P.S. When I compete at partscore I only bid with an intention to make the contract, especially when vulnerable. -100 vs -110 is 0 IMPs, and if they dared to double me and got -1, -200 vs -110 is -3 IMPs, -2 would be the whole night ruined.

When you compete at partscore at IMPs, it should be with a reasonable hope that both contracts are making. It's true that -200 vs -110 is -3 IMPs, but it's also true that +140 vs -110 is +6 IMPs. So if you chances of +140 are only one half your chances of -200, you should be bidding! You can't just be thinking about what you might lose; you also need to think about what you might win.

Quote

Even at the game level, even if we KNOW that their 4♠ is making, bidding 5♥ in advance to shut off the opponent's communication isn't really a good idea because the other tables might not even compete to 4♠ over our making 4♥!

If you KNOW 4♠ is making, you should absolutely bid 5♥ after they've bid 4♠. Passing 4♠ means -13 IMPs (or worse) against the folks making 4♥. Bidding 5♥ and getting doubled means -11 IMPs. So bidding saves 2 IMPs (though you rarely KNOW 4♠ is making, but, against that, you also rarely KNOW that 5♥ is down).

Quote

Yes I am playing there. It is the closest EBU club to where I live, which offers IMP pairs on a schedule good to me.

Well, as I understand it from everyone else here, it's probably the club with the highest playing standard in all of England, with a higher standard than most tournaments, so you shouldn't be surprised at -40. There are a few games with similarly high standards in the US; they tend to die out because all the beginners and intermediates get scared away.

[smerriman]

akwoo, on 2025-February-20, 17:09, said:

So if you chances of +140 are only one half your chances of -200, you should be bidding!

And, as you mentioned earlier, the chances of -200 are usually quite rare in themselves, since a lot of the time that you're down 1, the opponents won't (and shouldn't) be doubling anyway; they may pass you out or compete higher for an even better result for you. As the well-known saying goes, you should (almost) never let the opponents play in a fit at the 2 level.