[EricK]

Playing MP Pairs, partner opens 2NT (ostensibly 20-22 HCP), and you hold ♠Q ♥T963 ♦KJ82 ♣KQ95. What's your bidding plan? eg if you are going to start with 3♣, what do you intend to do over each of partner's possible responses?

[Lord Molyb]

3♣, over the expected 3♠ or 3♦ I bid 4NT, over 3♥ I'll make whatever slam try I'm given.

[whereagles]

There are some gadgets for situations like this, like 2NT-3NT as baron or a thing I read in Klinger's 5-card stayman book called "Neill after 2NT"

Without that I'll bid 3♣. Plan is to look for heart fit (4NT ensues) and follow up with 4♦ + 6♣. Example:

2NT 3♣
3♦ 3♠ (4 hearts)
3NT 4♦
any 6♣

Pard now chooses the appropriate minor suit slam. If he's 4333 I'll have to live with 6NT

[sfi]

Can I bid 3C asking for a major and then 4C asking for a minor?

Knowing what our system is would help rather a lot.

[the hog]

3C followed by 3NT over 3D/S. Make a st over 3H.

[WellSpyder]

Lord Molyb, on 2014-June-04, 17:24, said:

3♣, over the expected 3♠ or 3♦ I bid 4NT.

whereagles, on 2014-June-05, 02:10, said:

Without that I'll bid 3♣. Plan is to look for heart fit (4NT ensues)

So if partner shows a major in response to 3♣, does 4NT show a fit (RKCB?) or deny a fit (presumably invitational)? Either could be what you want, but how is partner supposed to know what you have in mind?

[helene_t]

If 2NT is 20-22 you probably need a quantitative invite over it. So Stayman followed by 4NT is quanti. To try for slam in opener's major, bid the other major, i.e.
2NT-3♣
3♥-3♠ (or 4♠ maybe?)

or
2NT-3♣
3♠-4♥

[whereagles]

WellSpyder, on 2014-June-05, 02:55, said:

So if partner shows a major in response to 3♣, does 4NT show a fit (RKCB?) or deny a fit (presumably invitational)? Either could be what you want, but how is partner supposed to know what you have in mind?

If partner happens to bid hearts, then 4NT is RKCB yes.

If I feel a 4NT mix-up might happen over a heart bid, I'll just play the odds and bid a straight 6♥.

[gszes]

♠Q ♥T963 ♦KJ82 ♣KQ95.

opposite p 20-22 we are in the 31 to 33 range with no length
(and p probably with no length if they are near max). The spade
Q is highly unlikely to be worth full value. The heart suit is
so bad we need p to have an exceptional heart suit to give us
a reasonable shot for 6. If we are to play this in slam we
would most likely be better off trying for a minor suit fit where
we at least have some stuff and do not require so much from p.

If available I would bid 3s MSS and if p bid 3n (none) I would pass
and over 4c or 4d I would try 4s splinter to see if p wants to play
slam or not (4n from p a sign off over 4s). W/O these tools I will
have to go via the HOG since if perchance p bids 3h I can still
splinter 3s giving us a slam try and not risking getting too high
if hearts do not break.

[Cyberyeti]

helene_t, on 2014-June-05, 03:01, said:

If 2NT is 20-22 you probably need a quantitative invite over it. So Stayman followed by 4NT is quanti. To try for slam in opener's major, bid the other major, i.e.
2NT-3♣
3♥-3♠ (or 4♠ maybe?)

or
2NT-3♣
3♠-4♥

We play:

2N-3♣-3♥-4♠ is KC (so 4N is quant), I would do this even if not playing kickback in other situations

2N-3♣-3♠-4♥ is a slam try agreeing spades

[PhilKing]

In England I am pretty sure the standard agreement for Stayman then 4NT is quant (sources available ).

[kenrexford]

One reasonable option is 3♣ and then 5NT if partner does not have four hearts.

[gszes]

kenrexford, on 2014-June-05, 13:12, said:

One reasonable option is 3♣ and then 5NT if partner does not have four hearts.

How would you know (w/o special agreement) that is different from 1n 5n which should be
grand slam quant? also what if p bids 3s would 5n now not be gsf (though I admit with
exclusion it is rarely a useful bid as gsf)?

[kenrexford]

gszes, on 2014-June-05, 17:00, said:

How would you know (w/o special agreement) that is different from 1n 5n which should be
grand slam quant? also what if p bids 3s would 5n now not be gsf (though I admit with
exclusion it is rarely a useful bid as gsf)?

As you noted, GSF isn't remotely useful. Well, technically I will pay up when I get two voids and four spades. Those 9400.hands just are a bitch for me.

As for grand slam quantitative, which is silliness in the sequence, I am ok with that bizarre conclusion, because the minor grand is likely there if partner bids it.

[mike777]

EricK, on 2014-June-04, 15:59, said:

Playing MP Pairs, partner opens 2NT (ostensibly 20-22 HCP), and you hold ♠Q ♥T963 ♦KJ82 ♣KQ95. What's your bidding plan? eg if you are going to start with 3♣, what do you intend to do over each of partner's possible responses?

3nt no problem yet

[aguahombre]

Interesting. With the toys we have, good or bad in the estimation of the World:

2N-3C (sort of Puppetish)
?..

3S (five) will elicit 4NT quant --If opener is 5s/4m we will lose the minor.
3H (five) will beget 3S (slammish for Hearts).
3D (none of the above) will probe for 4-4 heart fit via 3S, then bid 4S (minor suit probe/quant) if no heart fit.

For those who believe those methods suck, you are probably right. But, they accidentally seem to get it done this time.

[whereagles]

PhilKing, on 2014-June-05, 12:54, said:

In England I am pretty sure the standard agreement for Stayman then 4NT is quant (sources available ).

So how do people ask for aces?

2NT 3♣
3♥ 4♣ (nat or adv cue)
4♠ 4NT (cue for clubs, RKCB for... hearts or clubs??)

[PhilKing]

whereagles, on 2014-June-06, 02:12, said:

So how do people ask for aces?

2NT 3♣
3♥ 4♣ (nat or adv cue)
4♠ 4NT (cue for clubs, RKCB for... hearts or clubs??)

Over 3M the other M agrees the suit (Helene_T, post 7). 4m is just natural, 5m plus 4♠ - not 2 way.

[Zelandakh]

aguahombre, on 2014-June-05, 22:36, said:

2N-3C (sort of Puppetish)
3D (none of the above) will probe for 4-4 heart fit via 3S, then bid 4S (minor suit probe/quant) if no heart fit.

How do you play a 4♥ rebid over 3NT? One option would be to play 4♥ as showing clubs and 4♠ as showing diamonds. You also have the direct 4M rebids over 3♦ to work with. Many seem either to leave these sequences undefined in their Puppet structures or to assign essentially identical meanings to alternative routes, neither of which is exactly optimal.

[aguahombre]

Zelandakh, on 2014-June-06, 05:15, said:

How do you play a 4♥ rebid over 3NT? One option would be to play 4♥ as showing clubs and 4♠ as showing diamonds. You also have the direct 4M rebids over 3♦ to work with. Many seem either to leave these sequences undefined in their Puppet structures or to assign essentially identical meanings to alternative routes, neither of which is exactly optimal.

We don't have the direct 4M rebids over 3♦ to work with if we hold a 4-card major and a minor-probing quant, because we would need to bid 3M first.

Having explored for the major and gotten to 3NT, 4H is indeed idle. In your scheme, where 4H shows clubs and 4S shows diamonds, what shows both --as in the OP case?

Our crude version has 4S quant with one or both 4cm, and opener's acceptances then show which minor they would accept as a slam strain (or both).