[wank]

Playing precision with a 10-13 NT, 5cM, 2C 6+ no 4cM, we don't want to be opening 1NT in a lot of positions/vuls. Could open a stronger NT in these positions but that would involve learning 2 sets of rebids and whatever.

As my 1D opener is pretty overloaded (including 1435, 2425, x4x6 hands etc) I was thinking of taking something out of it. I'm only thinking of constructive options.

A simple option would be a lond diamond opener, similar to a precision 2C. This would be good in terms of pre-emption and frequency and would certainly simplify bidding these hands, especially awkward 6-3 of partner's major hands, but on the whole 6 card diamond hands are not the most problematic, so is it a bit of a waste of time?

If so, what might you suggest instead? We are playing 2S opener as 4S 5+C . We could for example take 4S 5+D hands out of 1D instead which would lead to all sorts of interesting relay possibilities for 1D - 1M. However, 1M relays in my area must be only 1 of negative/semi-negative (not defined but let's say this means below a GF) or GF.

We could play a sort of reverse Roman 1NT (am i misusing the name?) for 4H 5+C which would in connection with the 2S opener, massively relieve the stress on 1D, but that seems like a bit of a waste on frequency grounds.

Suggestions? Thanks

[Free]

Some quick thoughts:

- 4♥ and a longer m. You can use 2m as P/C.

- 6♣ and a 4-card M. In that case you can signoff with 2♣, and use 2♦ as relay asking the M.

- maybe some 2-way bid

Using it for 4♠-5+♦ seems useless since you can bid these hands naturally. Why can't your 2♣ opening have a 4-card M?

[wank]

the 2C opening having a 4cM was always a bit crap in my experience - you miss a lot of major fits especially part-scores or when opps intervene.

i realise the 4S-5D hand isn't a problem. it was more the idea of of freeing up the 1D-1H-1S rebid and effectively the 1D-1S response, allowing a relay based approach which interested me.

As I said relays need to be GF or sub-GF to be legal, so something like this:

1D - 1H = relay,upto invitational values
1D - 1S = relay, GF
1D - 1NT = nf, 5+spades

I've never developed my own relays, so there's a good chance this is an absolutely absurd idea.

[Ant590]

In an ideal world I'd like to play it as weak with 5m4M, with responses like Woolsey.

Doubt this would be legal anywhere though

[Free]

Ant590, on Dec 2 2009, 11:31 AM, said:

In an ideal world I'd like to play it as weak with 5m4M, with responses like Woolsey.

Doubt this would be legal anywhere though

I think that's legal according to WBF rules (red system). It can't be BSC because it's below 2♣ (and also because it's not weak), and it's not HUM as well.

[Ant590]

Free, on Dec 2 2009, 11:46 AM, said:

Ant590, on Dec 2 2009, 11:31 AM, said:

In an ideal world I'd like to play it as weak with 5m4M, with responses like Woolsey.

Doubt this would be legal anywhere though

I think that's legal according to WBF rules (red system). It can't be BSC because it's below 2♣ (and also because it's not weak), and it's not HUM as well.

Oh, I meant as a preempt, assumed-fit style.

[MickyB]

Think you were reading the level 2 section of the Orange Book - any responses are legal. Not my area of expertise, but most seem to go down the route of playing 1H as natural or GF relay, which seems sensible.

What's your complete opening structure? What will you do when eg 2nd in vul, open 12-15 balanced 1♦?

[jjbrr]

wank, on Dec 2 2009, 03:06 AM, said:

we don't want to be opening 1NT in a lot of positions/vuls.

i couldn't get past this statement.

[TylerE]

Agreed. I like mini NT a lot in 1st and 2nd.... if you're afraid to open it in those seats (possible exception for unfav), stop playing it. The whole idea is tobe able to make a descriptive open on hands that 90% of the field is passing.

[dake50]

The precision uses 2D as 3-suited D-short. Its frequency is near 1% even including 3415. Put real 5+D into that; let 1H if 4=4=1=4. (the only 5xM deviation). Then both 2C,2D suggest a minor suit source of tricks for 3NT. That's THE constructive value of a 5+minor.

I vehemently dislike 2C,2D may have 4xM! Why require a Major exploring scheme of responses/rebids to an otherwise clear concise auction?! A millstone to carry preventing any take advantage of no-blab 3NT,3m,4m,5m!

[wank]

i like the mini. i just meant it's a little too dangerous to open a mini in some spots, obviously. and as i said i don't want to play variable because that involves 2 sets of sequences. so in those situations when it's too dangerous to open a mini, 1nt is unused and can offer greater definition to other bids. i'm very happy to have a very loose 1D and keep the mini in the safer positions.

colo, you're right i didn't spot the small 11d8 section, so any series of replays is possible, despite what i said before. and yes we're opening 1D with 12-15 bal in those spots. ,

as for the rest of the system, 5cM, 2/1 GF, nearly forcing NT, 16+ 1C, 2C 6+ clubs no maj or 4-5+, 2D weak 1 major, 2h 3 suited short diamonds, 2S 4s 5+C, 2NT 5-5 mins 12-14(15)

i could play 1NT as 4S and a longer minor, freeing up a 2 opener for something destructive (dump 2S). this would have the added advantage of making the 2H opener guarantee 4H. then i'd get all the relay possibilites as opener would have denied 4S in an unalanced hand (i can find somewhere to stick 4441).

[TylerE]

I don't see why you're so hung up on variable NT. Learning two sets of NT responses ins't that difficult, and not even a requirement. Playing 2 way stayman over, say, 13-15, or transfers over 10-12 is certainly playable - I've done both.

[akhare]

I agree with Tyler's comments about variable NT.

Here's a scheme that that use with one pard:

1♦ = 0 - 5 ♦s, including 5m-4M, 4441♦, balanced hands that don't fit in 1NT
2♣ / 2♦ = 6+, may have a 4CM

1N:
===
10 - 12 NV (1st and second), 10-14 (3rd)
13 - 15 Vul

Playing a wider NT range in the 3rd seat might seem odd, but IMO it's more difficult to penalize than a 10-12 opposite a passed hand. Of course, one alternative is to use 13-15 for all third seat openings.