[Orla]

Some of my (live) partners want to play this. I hate it.

I have been told that it is not a good idea to open a weak 2 in first/second seat unless ... (your weak2 suit is good?) .. sorry have forgotten when you sh/could open, because you are "preempting your partner".

Why then, if I open 1♣/♦, would my partner want to respond 2♥? S/he does not have a clue about my hand. Whatever happened to responding 1♥ then 2♥?

What do I respond? The other day in our bridge club I was holding: ♠QJTX - ♥X - ♦AKQXXX - ♣?? I open 1♦ and my partner bids 2♥ - what now?

Anyone out there want to try to win me over to this stupid bid?

rla

[SoTired]

Weak J/S are useful, but as you theorized, "Isn't that preempting opener, when opener has announced a good hand?"

Yes, but not really. Not if you define the range of hands that the Weak J/S consist of. A narrow range of HCP and a narrow range of distributions. Then bidding 1, then 2, shows a different hand.
Also, you should define opener's continuations. Which bids are forcing, competitive and invitational.

You should also define when the weak j/s comes into play. 1m (p) 2M is the most obvious. But what about 1C (1D) 2H? How about 1H (p) 2S? How about 1C (X) 2S? What about 1S (p) 3C and 1S (2C) 3D?

Let's say you define a weak j/s as 4-7 HCP with a 6 or 7 card suit. When responder bids 1 then 2, responder has a slightly better hand, 8-9 HCP.
Opener is now well placed to determine partnership assets and contract in either situation.
When responder bids a weak j/s, responder has likely bid the normal partnership final contract and made it more difficult for the opps to enter the auction competitively.

However, there is a cost to the weak j/s. You no longer have the strong j/s or some other conventional meaning to the bids.

[jtfanclub]

You can limit it as much as you want to.

For example, in Precision, I use 1♣-2M to show

4-7 hcp (could be 3 if QJ the suit bid, not AK or three honors in the bid suit)
6+ cards in the suit.
No A or K outside of the suit bid.

You can use the same sort of bid in Standard American. It's a very hard hand to bid, and it can be helpful to partner to know if you have anything outside the suit for No Trump purposes if he only has a doubleton.

One problem SAYC has is that after a minor, opener often has to go too high to force another bid:

1♦ (P) 1♥ (P)
The weakest 'strong' bid is 2♠. This can make it very difficult to find slam. Letting partner know about your slam potential (or lack thereof) before he heads for the stratosphere is very useful, and doesn't pre-empt him at all.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

regarding your example hand: pass.
The bid you should choose, if partner would have opened
with a weak in hearts, ... at least for most people 3D over
2H would be forcing.

Regarding the adv. / disadv. of weak jump shifts:

It depends on the style you or your partner wants to play
1) it showes complete garbage, at most 7HCP
=> the frequence is not very high, but if it occurs, the bid
will be a warning signal
It will also strengthen slightly auctions, when responder
bids his mayor twice, showin something around 7/8-10 HCP
and a 6 carder
2) it showes a weak two strength, say 6-9, this has a reasonable
requency, and will strengthen the auction, when responder
would have to jump with a suit of the
form Axxxxx and 10-11/12 points, because now he can bid 2H,
partner can pass with a min. and a singleton or suggest a NT
contract
The disadv. is, that a jump rebid by responder becomes forcing,
... at least I have trouble remembering that the auction
1C - 1H
1S - 3H
became gameforcing.
If you play with different partners, you will mix this one up.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[barmar]

I'm also not a big fan of WJS. But when I play it, I play it as VERY weak, less than a hand that would open a weak 2. Opener shouldn't bid on unless he has a huge hand, close to a 2♣ opener, and trump support (my suit could easily be something like J9xxxxx).

[Gerben42]

Quote

What do I respond? The other day in our bridge club I was holding: ♠QJTX - ♥X - ♦AKQXXX - ♣?? I open 1♦ and my partner bids 2♥ - what now?

This is a silly argument. Suppose partner responds 1♥, you bid 1♠ and partner now bids 2♥, basically showing the same hand as the WJS would. Now what?

There is a basic rule that the higher the bid, the more specific the hand. And most treatments work okay if the hands that they were designed for, come up. And playing 1♦ - 2♥ as some specific meaning is almost always better than playing that it doesn't exist.

Anyway, back to WJS. I'm a big fan of these, when they show 5 - 8 HCP approximately. The reason is that they help you when they don't come up. Now 1♦ - 1♥ - 1♠ - 2♥, for example, the auction I mentioned above, now shows a hand TOO STRONG for the WJS, i.e. 9 - 12 HCP: Invitational. And jumping to 3♥ would be GF.

Quote

But when I play it, I play it as VERY weak, less than a hand that would open a weak 2

I found that passing partner's opening and then bidding the suit works well for these hands, and often you commit yourself to a level that you don't belong on.

[andy_h]

Weak Jump Shifts aren't that bad, I would say they're pretty helpful. It gives partner (opener) more leeway since our hand is much more defined. For example, immediately jumping to 2M after 1x-2M can show about 4-8 and bidding it slowly like 1x-1M-2x/2y-2M now shows 9-11 range. This will be very helpful in setting up GF auctions when you then bid 1M then later jump to 3M.
Imagine the awkwardness if the auction goes 1C-1H-2C-3H? If you don't play weak jump shifts, 3H now shows an invitational hand...does that mean you have to bid 4H with a GF and completely bypass all the bidding space, or do you start off with a "fake 2D" then later bid hearts which may give partner an improper judgement?

The hand you provided, after 1D-2H (presuming that is weak) I would bid 3D with your hand. Though I would not be surprised if 2H was our best partscore.

[awm]

The point of weak jump shifts is some hand like this:

♠KT9xxx
♥x
♦xx
♣xxxx

Partner opens 1♦. What do you do? If you pass, you could easily miss a game! Give partner something like:

♠Axxx
♥AKxx
♦Axxx
♣x

Even slam in spades has some play, and it would be embarrassing to bid 1♦-Pass on these hands right? The point is that if partner has a nice fit for spades then you don't need some huge hand to make game. On the other hand, what if you respond 1♠ to 1♦ and catch partner on some hand like:

♠x
♥KQxx
♦AKJTx
♣AKx

Now partner will force to game, expecting you to have six or more high card points for your one-level response. Your chances at 3NT (or any other game) on these two hands are really quite poor.

So it's nice to have a bid that tells partner: (1) you have a long suit (2) your hand is pretty worthless if that suit is not trump. This is what the weak jump shift accomplishes. Partner can bid game (or more!) on the first hand and can pass 2♠ on the second. Preempting the opponents when partner has a minimum is one win, but the important one is shutting partner up when he has a non-fitting max.

The "constructive jump shifts" some people have advocated on this thread are a reasonable treatment, but this is a different treatment than weak jump shifts as played in north america at least.