[benlessard]

K9
AJ9xxxx
KQ
QT

Kind of tough to make a rebid with this 1 I play that

1H---1S
2H (show a minimum)

and that

1H---1S
2m (could be 6H+3m 15-16)

On this hand however rebidding a 3 card minor isnt possible and the hand is slightly too good to rebid 2H so 3H is reasonnable. The extra trump should make 3H safe enough. After 3S bid however you are really happy to bid 3Nt.

Quote

I found your problems interesting, but it's difficult to give a sensible answer when the actual held hand doesn't resemble what was shown in the bidding.

Trying to give your best answer at all time and avoid resulting is the best way to improve at bridge even if partner bidding is sometimes off mark.

Just to know would a 2H rebid by partner show a minimum hand ?

[the hog]

Ben if you are suggesting that I am resulting then I strongly resent that comment. See my first post in this thread for my initial answer.

Yes I would bid 2H on the real hand - there is no law that says you can't have a maximum minimum.

[Winstonm]

The_Hog, on May 12 2008, 12:32 AM, said:

"Opener has 15HCP and a 7 card suit. I find it hard to criticise a 3♥ rebid."

Correct with a broken 7 card suit, and QT of C, and KQ of D? Your hand evaluation is far different from mine.

"the correct 3♠ response"

With Qx of S and KQJxxx of H the 3H bidder should bid 4S and not 3NT with an odd suit hole. Many also play that 3H would deny a 3 card s fit. (Though I concede that is not standard - a number of posters on this board play this.)
3NT on the given hand is no thing of joy if pd has bid 3S on xx of C, the Ace of Ds and 6 pretty decent spades.

And don't rule out the lousy (edited for Han) shape - this hand is not worth a jump rebid.

[han]

Agree with 3H, the 7-card suit makes up for the 6322 shape.

[Winstonm]

han, on May 12 2008, 08:18 PM, said:

Agree with 3H, the 7-card suit makes up for the 6322 shape.

LOL

[the hog]

han, on May 13 2008, 08:18 AM, said:

Agree with 3H, the 7-card suit makes up for the 6322 shape.

Do you really believe this Han, or are you just being obstreporous? If "Yes", I am surprised. The QT and KQ hon combinations do not pull their weight, so you are effectively jumping on a 14 count at best. In addition, the Hs, despite there being 7 of them, are tatty.

[Fluffy]

The_Hog, on May 13 2008, 05:51 AM, said:

The QT and KQ hon combinations do not pull their weight, so you are effectively jumping on a 14 count at best.

Don't forget Kx in spades, I prefer Kx in spades than Ax dunno why.

[ArtK78]

Opener's hand is a 2 1/2 heart bid. 6 losers (MLTC), fair 7 card suit, I would not object to an underbid of 2♥ or an overbid of 3♥.

I am a little surprised that no one has commented on the initial response of 1♠. Is there no one out there who wants to consider bidding 2♣ followed by spades and spades? I am sure if faced with this hand in first seat most players would open the bidding. Why not bid out the shape of the hand accurately by making the slight overbid of 2♣?

If one was playing Standard or SAYC rather than 2/1, I think 2♣ would be absolutely clear.

[dcvetkov]

ArtK78, on May 13 2008, 10:26 AM, said:

Opener's hand is a 2 1/2 heart bid.  6 losers (MLTC), fair 7 card suit, I would not object to an underbid of 2♥ or an overbid of 3♥.

I am a little surprised that no one has commented on the initial response of 1♠.  Is there no one out there who wants to consider bidding 2♣ followed by spades and spades?  I am sure if faced with this hand in first seat most players would open the bidding.  Why not bid out the shape of the hand accurately by making the slight overbid of 2♣?

If one was playing Standard or SAYC rather than 2/1, I think 2♣ would be absolutely clear.

I agree with 2 1/2 hearts,, probably this hand is closer to 3H then bidding just 2. It is just too likely we will miss a game.

Regarding 2C, i think it will be an overbid, even in SAYC, and this hand is not worht that much with void in partners suit. So, you think partner will put the brakes after you bid clubs and twice spades?

You would make the same bid with AKJxx - Ax AQxxxx, how is partner gonna know which hand do you have?

[ArtK78]

dcvetkov, on May 13 2008, 12:59 PM, said:

You would make the same bid with AKJxx - Ax  AQxxxx, how is partner gonna know which hand do you have?

I suspect that once you found a fit, the subsequent bidding with the actual hand and the one that you have will be quite different. The purpose of bidding 2♣ followed by spades and spades is to find a fit. With your example, once a fit is found, the sky is the limit. With the hand shown in this thread, game is the limit.

I recognize that 2♣ followed by spade bids is an overbid. But it is not a huge overbid, and it has the advantage of showing your distribution accurately. If you add the CQ to the hand, there is no doubt that one would bid it that way.

[whereagles]

effervesce, on May 11 2008, 11:30 PM, said:

whereagles, on May 11 2008, 12:47 PM, said:

I'll bid 4♣. Must be a good 55 or better, which pretty much looks like what I got.

4♣ looks like a cuebid to me. I'd bid 3♠. Too strong to pass, can't bid clubs, don't have the hearts to raise to 4♥, and can't bid 3NT. Partner's bid will make everything easy.

Well, I got it defined in my system as natural. Yes I bother to write down these auctions

[whereagles]

I've been agreeing with Ron a lot lately, but this time I don't. I think 3♥ is a perfectly fine bid.

Anyway, pard has a difficult decision over 3♠. I guess he's endplayed into 3NT. My 4♣ doesn't make it easier, though. In this case he's endplayed into some 4M bid and pray.

[skjaeran]

whereagles, on May 13 2008, 08:36 PM, said:

I've been agreeing with Ron a lot lately, but this time I don't. I think 3♥ is a perfectly fine bid.

Anyway, pard has a difficult decision over 3♠. I guess he's endplayed into 3NT. My 4♣ doesn't make it easier, though. In this case he's endplayed into some 4M bid and pray.

I don't agree with Ron that much, but this time I do.
I think 2♥ is a fine bid (not perfect though).
3♥ is an overbid on this hand.

[Codo]

I nearly always agree with Harald, so I do here.

3 Heart is for point counters.

[jdonn]

Agree very strongly that 2♥ is the correct rebid. Maybe 3♥ in general on a 2722 15 count, but this hand is clearly worth less than 15.

[Winstonm]

jdonn, on May 14 2008, 11:11 AM, said:

Agree very strongly that 2♥ is the correct rebid. Maybe 3♥ in general on a 2722 15 count, but this hand is clearly worth less than 15.

With the trend being to open worse and worse hands, maybe we've simply reached the point where you have to jump simply to show that you actually have an opening hand.

I'm with Josh - this isn't so much about the range of a 3H bid but of hand evaluation: 2722 is flat. KQ and Q10 are overvalued.

Move a card or two around:
Kx, AQJ9xxx, 10, KQx compared to:
Kx, AJ9xxxx, Q10, KQ

If the difference isn't obvious, I might suggest another game - gin rummy or perhaps pinochle.

[the hog]

Your first example has 14 cards Winston, but take away a H and, I agree, it is an obvious 3H bid. I would also bid 3H on Axx KQJTxx x Axx
I would not even bid 3H on the original posted hand if playing a big C system.