[mike777]

Scoring: MP

---

Another BW Challenge the Champs from 1972.

[Fluffy]

1♠-2♦
2♠-4♠

[han]

1S - 2D
2S - 2NT
3C - 3S
3NT - pass

Seems normal.

[gwnn]

Hannie, on Feb 5 2008, 09:53 PM, said:

1S - 2D
2S - 2NT
3C - 3S
3NT - pass

Seems normal.

sounds pretty WTP to me...

edit: for the record I could never reach 3NT.

[han]

Only slightly less contrived:

1S - 2D
2H* - 2S
3C - 3D
3NT - pass

2H = catch all, the rest is natural (3D showing good diamonds).

[Cascade]

1♠ 2♦
2♠ (Yuk) 3♠
?

Probably raise to 4♠ based on the shape but perhaps I should be turned off by the 2♦ bid.

I have opened hands like this 1♣ although I think on the actual hand I would be seduce by the ♠9 to open 1♠. If I did open 1♣ then I think we can stop in 3♣.

1♣ 2♣* inverted
2♦** 3♣
Pass

** singleton

[Cascade]

Hannie, on Feb 6 2008, 08:53 AM, said:

1S - 2D
2S - 2NT
3C - 3S
3NT - pass

Seems normal.

Is this for real?

2NT with no heart stopper and a three spades normal?

[han]

Cascade, on Feb 5 2008, 03:20 PM, said:

Hannie, on Feb 6 2008, 08:53 AM, said:

1S - 2D
2S - 2NT
3C - 3S
3NT - pass

Seems normal.

Is this for real?

No.

I was trying to come with a believable auction to 3NT. I failed, it's hard!

Csaba was in on the joke btw.

[inquiry]

mike777, on Feb 5 2008, 02:49 PM, said:

Another BW Challenge the Champs from 1972.

Scoring: MP


2♠ - 2NT
3♣ - Pass/3♠ (both end auction),

or

2♠ - Pass

or maybe

2♠ - 2NT
3♣ - 3♦
3NT - Pass

---

In each case 2♠ is minimum opening bid, 5♠, 4+♣ (from ritong). North's hand is adequate in support for spades or clubs, but all his values is buried in the red suits. 2NT, if bid, looks for side three card suit. 3♣ shows 5+♣. North can now pass or bid 3♣. North can also just forget about it and pass 2♠. If north WANTED to force to game, 3♦ over 3♣ is game force with diamonds. South bids 3NT suggesting solid heart stopper (Qx is not a stopper), so north could pass that. I am thinking i would be playing 2♠/3♠ on this one.

[jdonn]

I will make a definitive statement. In actual play it would be 100% impossible for any honest player who is advanced or expert to get to any contract but 4♠. If I had to find some auction to reach any other contract, it would be north raising the opening bid to a very heavy 2♠.

[Cascade]

Hannie, on Feb 6 2008, 09:23 AM, said:

Cascade, on Feb 5 2008, 03:20 PM, said:

Hannie, on Feb 6 2008, 08:53 AM, said:

1S - 2D
2S - 2NT
3C - 3S
3NT - pass

Seems normal.

Is this for real?

No.

I was trying to come with a believable auction to 3NT. I failed, it's hard!

Csaba was in on the joke btw.

It didn't seem real but it also seemed such a bad auction that it didn't seem like a joke.

[Cascade]

jdonn, on Feb 6 2008, 09:54 AM, said:

I will make a definitive statement. In actual play it would be 100% impossible for any honest player who is advanced or expert to get to any contract but 4♠. If I had to find some auction to reach any other contract, it would be north raising the opening bid to a very heavy 2♠.

As I stated earlier if we chose to open 1♣ admitedly dubious on the actual hand but close we would not only avoid spades we would not even bid the suit. Twice on one day in the National trials I opened/overcalled 1minor with a 5Major-5minor hand when my suits were Major - 10xxxx and minor AKQxx. With spades and clubs it is ever so slightly more likely I would open clubs since it is usually easier to introduce the spades later.

[han]

WTF Justin, 4S goes down!

[Echognome]

Very tough bidding honestly seeing both hands. In Gnome Club, the responder hand is really going to be the one making the decision as he will either show this as a Invitational raise with 3 spades or use a GF relay. I guess the other issue is what opener will choose to do over the 3-card invite. He can either show a minimum hand with a NF 2♠ call (responder is still free to try for game) or he can make a short or long suit game try. If he chooses the long suit game try, I can't see any other contract than 4♠. If he choose the short suit game try, then responder isn't going to be thrilled and would likely sign off in 3♠.

I gave Jason the problem and he started with 2♥ which is a 3-4 card raise.

I asked him what he would bid over:

2♠ (minimum opening) - Pass

2NT (SSGT unknown) - 3♣ (asks)
3♥ (♦ shortness) - 3♠ (signoff)

3♣ (LSGT) - 4♠

So about what I expected.

[mike777]

Echognome, on Feb 5 2008, 07:49 PM, said:

Very tough bidding honestly seeing both hands. In Gnome Club, the responder hand is really going to be the one making the decision as he will either show this as a Invitational raise with 3 spades or use a GF relay. I guess the other issue is what opener will choose to do over the 3-card invite. He can either show a minimum hand with a NF 2♠ call (responder is still free to try for game) or he can make a short or long suit game try. If he chooses the long suit game try, I can't see any other contract than 4♠. If he choose the short suit game try, then responder isn't going to be thrilled and would likely sign off in 3♠.

I gave Jason the problem and he started with 2♥ which is a 3-4 card raise.

I asked him what he would bid over:

2♠ (minimum opening) - Pass

2NT (SSGT unknown) - 3♣ (asks)
3♥ (♦ shortness) - 3♠ (signoff)

3♣ (LSGT) - 4♠

So about what I expected.

Yes, short suit game try in D may get us stopped in 3s, which raises the question how do we decide when to make a short suit game try in D or a long suit game try?
I do not know.

[jdonn]

Echognome, on Feb 5 2008, 07:49 PM, said:

2NT (SSGT unknown) - 3♣ (asks)
3♥ (♦ shortness) - 3♠ (signoff)

And if the ace was in spades rather than hearts?

[Echognome]

jdonn, on Feb 5 2008, 05:49 PM, said:

Echognome, on Feb 5 2008, 07:49 PM, said:

2NT (SSGT unknown) - 3♣ (asks)
3♥ (♦ shortness) - 3♠ (signoff)

And if the ace was in spades rather than hearts?

I'm just reporting to you how it was bid. Our conversation was literally:

Matt - "You hold xxx K KQJxx QTxx. I open 1♠. What do you bid?"

Jason - "2♥" (3-4 card limit raise)

Matt - "Ok. Suppose I bid 2♠ (minimum) over that. What do you bid?"

Jason - "Pass"

Matt - "What if I bid 2NT (SSGT) and after you ask, I bid 3♥ (♦ shortness)?"

Jason - "3♠"

Matt - "What if I bid 3♣ (LSGT)?"

Jason - "4♠"

[cherdano]

I would just bid 4♠ over a limit raise, even if I have the space to make short or long suit game tries. Especially when it could be a 4-card limit raise.

[jtfanclub]

mike777, on Feb 5 2008, 02:49 PM, said:

Scoring: MP

---

Another BW Challenge the Champs from 1972.

OK, I get....

1♠ 1NT
2♣ 3♠

I don't get where 4♠ is coming from after that. I already counted my shape in order to open, I'm not going to count it now as extras.