[pilowsky]

Six pairs landed in 6♥ and all 6 - including us went off 1.
The ♦9 was led to the 3, J and taken in hand with the K.
The ♥A from hand collected the 5 from South and the 8 from North.
Now what?

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[thepossum]

pilowsky, on 2024-May-16, 00:27, said:

Six pairs landed in 6♥ and all 6 - including us went off 1.
The ♦9 was led to the 3, J and taken in hand with the K.
The ♥A from hand collected the 5 from South and the 8 from North.
Now what?

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Since you've given clues just play all trumps. That's one down is it lol

Unblock my clubs. Don't tell me there is a void

[smerriman]

Interesting hand. If South has 4 trumps we can't make, so rule that out. The simple looking line is low spade to the queen, trump finesse. If it wins, we have 12 tricks; if it loses, we're only going down if South started with exactly Qx of trumps and 6 spades, and gives North a ruff.. which seems unlikely..

Though if playing against robots, the lead promises at most a doubleton.. in which case we might actually have a near guaranteed line to make if we cash the top trump first, even if South shows out.. which may end up even less unlikely to go down than the above line. Not sure on this.

[Cyberyeti]

smerriman, on 2024-May-16, 01:57, said:

Interesting hand. If South has 4 trumps we can't make, so rule that out. The simple looking line is low spade to the queen, trump finesse. If it wins, we have 12 tricks; if it loses, we're only going down if South started with exactly Qx of trumps and 6 spades, and gives North a ruff.. which seems unlikely..

Though if playing against robots, the lead promises at most a doubleton.. in which case we might actually have a near guaranteed line to make if we cash the top trump first, even if South shows out.. which may end up even less unlikely to go down than the above line. Not sure on this.

Is cash the ♣A, cross to the spade, pitch the ♠K on the ♣K and then hook the trump better ?

[pilowsky]

smerriman, on 2024-May-16, 01:57, said:

Interesting hand. If South has 4 trumps we can't make, so rule that out. The simple looking line is low spade to the queen, trump finesse. If it wins, we have 12 tricks; if it loses, we're only going down if South started with exactly Qx of trumps and 6 spades, and gives North a ruff.. which seems unlikely..

Though if playing against robots, the lead promises at most a doubleton.. in which case we might actually have a near guaranteed line to make if we cash the top trump first, even if South shows out.. which may end up even less unlikely to go down than the above line. Not sure on this.

The ♥8 was a singleton.
All players were human - a non-BBO club game.

[pescetom]

An interesting side question here is whether this slam could have been bidden more precisely... in particular, does anyone play 3♠ by West as a control-bid fixing hearts as trumps rather than natural (and if not, what would 4♣ be) ?

[pescetom]

pilowsky, on 2024-May-16, 03:26, said:

The ♥8 was a singleton.

It would still be tricky for I/A even knowing that to start with
But on reflection you might be able to strip the other suits, ruffing a spade and a club to reduce count, then throw in from KJ9 to QT6.

[Cyberyeti]

pilowsky, on 2024-May-16, 03:26, said:

The ♥8 was a singleton.
All players were human - a non-BBO club game.

need to know what they lead from 3 or 4 to the 9

You have to guess the distribution, you can make against 3433, 4423 and 3424 but you have to guess which he holds

[mikeh]

It may be possible to make despite south holding Q10xx in hearts, but one would need either to be self-kibitzing or a fool to play for it. Nobody would ever try for this unless, just possibly, south had doubled.

Not only is it hugely anti-percentage but it is also very unlikely. One basically needs to shorten one’s trump down to KJx and then exit a trump, endplaying south. This means using two dummy entries to obtain black suit ruffs, without being overruffed, while also dealing with the diamond suit where south certain,y appears, on the lead, to be possibly short.

Thus the point of this thread escapes me. In the real world, I’d be worried about whether it’s worth catering to north holding Q10xx, where (given the friendly diamond situation) I’d cross to dummy and hook the heart,to make 6, while risk8ng losing to Qx and finding out that the diamond lead was from 987xx (I said above that south could possibly be short, but that doesn’t mean I’m assuming he is…he could equally well be making a passive lead from 98x(x)(x)). The alternative is cashing the top two hearts, making anytime hearts are 3=2. I’m pretty sure the hook is best but I’d be a little worried by the diamond Jack having been played.

So you and everyone went down in a decent slam?

Slip this into the finals of any major event, including WC, and I’d give long odds that nobody would make it.

I suspect that there was a double dummy analysis available that said that 6H was cold. While the double dummy analysis that we (where I play) get every session can be interesting, it also leads countless non-expert players to think that they must have misplayed when they don’t achieve the double dummy result. As such, those printed analyses do as much harm as they do good for the average player, imo.

[Cyberyeti]

Mike, it's just possible somebody made it on a club lead. Stripping the position is not hopeless, even if south gets a ruff, you still make if he had 3 trumps or Qx. Then if no ruff playing a low trump wins pretty much all the time S doesn't have Qxx without the 10.

[gszes]

Pairs vs IMPS. Same game in all aspects except for how to play any given hand. Overtricks are extremely valuable in this pair game while almost meaningless at IMPS. The main point here is, that while it may be possible to make 6h with trumps 4/1 offside, the required LOP carries a huge risk of holding us to making only 6 while a more conventional LOP allows us to make 7 (when the trumps are NOT 4/1 offside). AT IMPS it may well be worth exploring for ways to cater to trumps being 4/1 offside IF there is no strong risk that taking such a LOP would risk us going down when trumps are not so poorly situated.

I would win the dia A and lead a heart to the J.

A comment on the bidding (not that anyone asked).

After 4n 5d the leap to 6h with all of the controls is a mistake. Picture opener with x AKQJxxx AQJx x. Opener has no choice but to pass the 6h bid since it is possible for our side should be missing a ace. A much better continuation by responder would be 5s (asking for the trump Q and showing the possession of all 5 key cards in the partnership). The current problem would find us in 6h but in my PICTURE hand we would soon arrive in 7N.

[pilowsky]

FWIW.

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[johnu]

pilowsky, on 2024-May-17, 16:52, said:

FWIW.

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With no opposition bidding, nobody is playing for a double trump reduction, followed by a trump endplay at trick 11.

[pilowsky]

johnu, on 2024-May-17, 19:35, said:

With no opposition bidding, nobody is playing for a double trump reduction, followed by a trump endplay at trick 11.

It's a club game; I doubt any of us could even spell it.