[dickiegera]

---

Enough to bid 2 ♥or should I do something else??? Pass????

[DavidKok]

I think this hand is worth 2♥, especially in the modern style where this primarily confirms a 4-card suit and denies having a very marginal double.

[LBengtsson]

 DavidKok, on 2023-January-16, 17:41, said:

I think this hand is worth 2♥, especially in the modern style where this primarily confirms a 4-card suit and denies having a very marginal double.

Agree. I think the problem here is that North does not know the length of South's club suit. By bidding 2♥ you stop South bidding it again as a balance at the 2 level. Both West and North are weak, and partner could not bid 1♥ as a overcall over 1♣ suggesting both weakness and lack of a five timer in♥s. I cannot see West getting excited about your 2♥ bid. But you do hope to stop the opps. from competing.

Admittedly, South could have bid a assumed ♣ suit with some length after your TOX, but probably decided not to after seeing his own partner pass on the first round.

[apollo1201]

You’d have made the same bid (X reopen) without 2 of your 3 goodies in D., or without the SA and DK.

You therefore owe partner a bid as they’ll jump to 2H only with a hand worth opening or very close to.

So definitely yes, 2H.

[mw64ahw]

I'm wondering what a 1♠ bid followed by ♥ says compared to a direct ♥ bid? Possibly a stronger hand that's looking for more definition from partner?

[Cyberyeti]

 mw64ahw, on 2023-January-17, 02:38, said:

I'm wondering what a 1♠ bid followed by ♥ says compared to a direct ♥ bid? Possibly a stronger hand that's looking for more definition from partner?

Fine if you get another bid, but not guaranteed, you may be playing 1♠ in a 4-1 fit rather than 2♥ in a 4-4.

[mw64ahw]

 Cyberyeti, on 2023-January-17, 03:31, said:

Fine if you get another bid, but not guaranteed, you may be playing 1♠ in a 4-1 fit rather than 2♥ in a 4-4.

That would be my worry too. I guess it depends on whether a new 1-level suit is forcing and other agreements you have in place.

[kgr]

Rather Too much for 2♥ than not enough (1♥ of partner can be a bit stronger because DBL was in balancing position)

[helene_t]

 mw64ahw, on 2023-January-17, 02:38, said:

I'm wondering what a 1♠ bid followed by ♥ says compared to a direct ♥ bid? Possibly a stronger hand that's looking for more definition from partner?

That would be some 16-19 points with 5 spades and 3 hearts.

Don't do it. Support with support. If this hand is too good for 2♥, bid 2♣ or maybe 3♥.

Personally I think it is closer to 2♣ than to pass, but I would just bid 2♥ considering the poor suit.

[DavidKok]

I think game prospects are worse than they look. Reopening doubles are not that much weaker than regular takeout doubles. We have the perfect shape and a bit over an ace extra, but partner is showing approximately 0-8 and marked with club length on the auction. On a really bad day partner may have bid 1♥ on a 3-card suit (with a 3=3=2=5 shape and 0-5 points or so). But mostly I expected partner to jump with a good 9 to bad 11 points and 4 hearts, secure in the knowledge that by failing to act last round we won't play partner for more than that. And if we give partner, say, ♠Tx, ♥KTxx, ♦xxx, ♣KQxx - a maximum in context, and I was even kind enough to give the opponents an undisclosed club fit - I still don't love game prospects.

That's a big part of why I prefer 2♥ to 2♣ or 3♥. We only really want partner to bid on with a supermaximum, not with some average 5-count (which would be in the top half of the approximate 0-8 range of the 1♥ bid).

On second thought game looks decent opposite my maximum hand. Maybe I've talked myself into 3♥?

[pescetom]

 DavidKok, on 2023-January-17, 06:08, said:

That's a big part of why I prefer 2♥ to 2♣ or 3♥. We only really want partner to bid on with a supermaximum, not with some average 5-count (which would be in the top half of the approximate 0-8 range of the 1♥ bid).

Isn't that pretty much what 2♣ says, apart from clubs shortage (and we have that too) ?

[mw64ahw]

 helene_t, on 2023-January-17, 05:45, said:

That would be some 16-19 points with 5 spades and 3 hearts.

Don't do it. Support with support. If this hand is too good for 2♥, bid 2♣ or maybe 3♥.

Personally I think it is closer to 2♣ than to pass, but I would just bid 2♥ considering the poor suit.

2♣ makes sense with this 6 modified loser hand

[DavidKok]

 pescetom, on 2023-January-17, 07:05, said:

Isn't that pretty much what 2♣ says, apart from clubs shortage (and we have that too) ?

2♣ is the catchall for big hands, including hands too strong to risk partner's possible pass over a second round natural call. As far as I know partner isn't supposed to assume there's a fit, but rather describe their hand further.

[mycroft]

I bid 2♥; yeah, there's enough there. But remember that there will be the rare case that partner has nothing and 3325 or the like. Don't play the "bridge pessimist" game, but don't think it's all free and safe.

[bluenikki]

♦

 DavidKok, on 2023-January-16, 17:41, said:

I think this hand is worth 2♥, especially in the modern style where this primarily confirms a 4-card suit and denies having a very marginal double.

Wouldn't this be a raise even by an old-fashioned direct-seat doubler? 18 dummy points.

Wouldn't a re-opening doubler raise without the ♦ king?

[DavidKok]

I'm not sure, I would pass without the diamond king. Game is remote and the lack of a club raise or rebid is suspicious. But maybe my style is simply out of date.

Points schmoints, like I said I think game is remote even with our current hand. I think traditionally the 2♥ raise is a game try opposite 0-8, and this is barely that.

[apollo1201]

 DavidKok, on 2023-January-17, 14:19, said:

I think traditionally the 2♥ raise is a game try opposite 0-8, and this is barely that.

Given that you balance with a K less than a TOX, the 1H advance has to go a K higher too, so is more 0-11 than 0-8. After all, unless you have a minimal opening or less, you’re supposed to bid again after Xing.

[Douglas43]

I'm with David. Worth a raise after balancing but not after a second seat double.

[mikeh]

I think most posters here are significantly undervaluing this hand

Is it possible that partner has only 3 hearts? Yes, but it’s against the odds. If he has as little as K10xx in a modest hand, Qx K10xx xxx Qxxx we’d want to be in game, and that gave him club wastage.

2C is, imo, unwise. It has, at the low end, a strong double with precisely three card support. At the high end, it’s very strong indeed with 4 hearts. If partner bids 2D, your 2H bid now would be forcing, stronger than a direct 3H.

Also, if we had opened 1D and partner responded 1H, we’re closer to bidding game than to raising to 2H….we have a middle of the road 3H bid.

Here, partner almost surely has hcp. We have 15, RHO has, these days, no more than 4. Opener didn’t redouble or bid 1N or 2C, so probably has a moderate or weaker 1C bid.

I’d bid 3H here.

Finally, had we opened 1D and had partner bid 1H, with silent opps, we’d be valuing this hand in the absence of much information from the bidding. Here, partner will often be able to play almost double dummy, certainly in terms of honours, due to the bidding.

[dickiegera]

 dickiegera, on 2023-January-16, 17:02, said:

---

Enough to bid 2 ♥or should I do something else??? Pass????

for what it is worth partners hand

---