[ali quarg]

Not quite sure how I should have bid this one as I was playing Acol rather than 2/1, but needless to say we didn't make PAR

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[Cyberyeti]

Who deals ?

[Cyberyeti]

With East dealing:

1♦-2♦ (inverted not denying 4M, inv+)
2N(15+ GF)3♦ (could have asked with an art 3♣ so no 4M)
3♥-3♠ (both stops, from this point on with E holding ♠Q and W known not to have 4M he knows the spades are a control)
4♣-4N (heart control, no second spade control, 4♥ would be kickback, extras or would bid 4♦)
6N (actually knows from his hand that W must have at least 6 diamonds as has a club control missing the AK and no 4M)

Is just possible partner has Axx, KJx, AQxxxx, x or Axx, Kx, AQxxxxx, x and you have 13 off the top

With W dealing:

1♦-2♦ (as above)
2N (15+ GF, it's worth this once partner supports ♦)-3♣(art ask, partner can still have 4 hearts)
3♦ (diamonds only)-3♥(stop)
3♠(stop)-4♣(cue)
4♦(minimum for auction, but better than 5♦)-4♥(kickback)
4N(1/4)-5♣(Q?)
5♥(yes and ♥K)-6N

[ali quarg]

Cyberyeti, on 2022-November-10, 08:42, said:

2N (15+ GF, it's worth this once partner supports ♦)-3♣(art ask, partner can still have 4 hearts)

Even with singleton Q♣?

[Cyberyeti]

ali quarg, on 2022-November-10, 08:57, said:

Even with singleton Q♣?

AQxxxx is vast when you know partner has 4, it's not quite AQxx and 2 aces but it's more than a king better than AQxx in a 12 count, even discounting the ♣Q I would GF, what do you need ? Ax, QJxx, Kxxx, xxx is plenty for 5♦, either major suit ace plus Kxxx, and the club K or A will also do for 3N most of the time (almost all of it if you have the ♣Q).

[nullve]

Cyberyeti, on 2022-November-10, 08:42, said:

With East dealing:

1♦-2♦ (inverted not denying 4M, inv+)
2N(15+ GF)3♦ (could have asked with an art 3♣ so no 4M)
3♥-3♠ (both stops, from this point on with E holding ♠Q and W known not to have 4M he knows the spades are a control)
4♣-4N (heart control, no second spade control, 4♥ would be kickback, extras or would bid 4♦)
6N (actually knows from his hand that W must have at least 6 diamonds as has a club control missing the AK and no 4M)

How does West know that East already knows that West has a spade control?

[mikeh]

How one should bid this one depends on one’s methods

I don’t know acolyte so can’t offer any advice if one is constrained by having to use that method

I do know 2/1 but that doesn’t help much since 3/1 is not a ‘system’: it is an underlying philosophy. For instance, using 2/1 doesn’t mean that one is always using inverted minors nor, if one is, that one has a standard set of later actions

With one partner I’d open 1D and partner would bid 2D, limit or better

Turn opener, in our methods, bids 2H as an artificial game force. Without going into detail, I’d expect a fairly smooth auction to 6N

With another partner I’d open 2C and partner would bid 2S, showing either 5-8 or about 12 hcp, balanced with no major or any hand with primary diamonds

Opener bids 2N, responder transfers to 3D and then bids 4H, keycard

Once again I expect to reach 6N but on that auction there is a slight risk of playing 6D. Since I’m primarily an imp player, I would not love reaching 6D but I wouldn’t be too upset. At mps, I’m sure we’d bid 6N even if we felt some uncertainty about the stiff club

[mikeh]

How one should bid this one depends on one’s methods

I don’t know acolyte so can’t offer any advice if one is constrained by having to use that method

I do know 2/1 but that doesn’t help much since 3/1 is not a ‘system’: it is an underlying philosophy. For instance, using 2/1 doesn’t mean that one is always using inverted minors nor, if one is, that one has a standard set of later actions

With one partner I’d open 1D and partner would bid 2D, limit or better

Turn opener, in our methods, bids 2H as an artificial game force. Without going into detail, I’d expect a fairly smooth auction to 6N

With another partner I’d open 2C and partner would bid 2S, showing either 5-8 or about 12 hcp, balanced with no major or any hand with primary diamonds

Opener bids 2N, responder transfers to 3D and then bids 4H, keycard

Once again I expect to reach 6N but on that auction there is a slight risk of playing 6D. Since I’m primarily an imp player, I would not love reaching 6D but I wouldn’t be too upset. At mps, I’m sure we’d bid 6N even if we felt some uncertainty about the stiff club

[pescetom]

I'm not au fait with what passes for Acol these days and probably not ready for 3/1 either
The hand is far from ideal for Italian 2/1 without inverted diamonds, but it would probably go:

_______ 1♦(4+)
2♣(GF) - 2♥(4+)
4♦(fix) - 4♥(ctl)
4♠(ctl) - 5♣(ctl, odd KC)
6♦(play) - ?

East might pass that for safety at IMPs, but at MPs with substantial extras we were unable to show, a huge diamonds fit and safety in the other suits it seems reasonable to convert to 6NT.

[mw64ahw]

Not sure about Acol, but playing 2/1 TW variation
1♣ - 1♠ GI
1NT Balanced 12-14/18-19 - 2NT ♦ transfer
4♣ 18-19 SI control - 4♠ 1/3 KCs ♠ control 2+ ♦ honours. (4♦ would deny 2+/3)
4NT ♥ control - 5NT K♥
6NT I can count the tricks

[LBengtsson]

Not knowing Acol in its entirety, but I guess that 4M (if not using 5M Acol) get bid before 4m. So, I guess that East opens 1♥, West responds 2♦ and then East has to take the decision whether to do next? Can you reach 6NT without a whole box of gadgets and without seeing both hands? Possibly.

I think it is probably easier to reach 6NT if East opens 1♦ here, and Acol players are playing inverted minors. If they are not, then again it could be more difficult imo.

[Cyberyeti]

nullve, on 2022-November-10, 13:11, said:

How does West know that East already knows that West has a spade control?

He doesn't but without one E would likely bid 4♦ here rather than the more committal 4N as he's unlikely to have enough extras in the context of a diamond slam, remember he's already stretched somewhat with his GF, QJx is not a great holding and is the only possible one that is not a control.