[pilowsky]

This came up today.
East alerting his bid as "Precision".
What should I have done?

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[LBengtsson]

2♦ simple overcall. partner has passed. it will probably stop them using relay bid after 2♣ opener. that is enough for you now. you cannot stop his partner bidding 2♥ or 3♣ and unless you have some convention to use over precision 2♣ opening to show this hand then just simple 2♦ bid will do.

those who are more aggressive may prefer 3♦ as your hand is 6-5 but your suit is weak and it will take time to make tricks. that's why 2♦ I prefer. more difficult for LHO to X given the limited points and shape of openers hand.

you might have some jumping michaels bid to use here but its possible there is misfit on hands also, so I do not want to go to high level when I can disrupt their relay with my bid

[DavidKok]

This is a difficult hand to bid. In my opinion this hand is too weak for Leaping Michaels (in my agreements 4♣ shows diamonds and a major, at least 5-5, GF). That means you have to choose between 2♦ intending to rebid 2♠ and 3♠, or 2♠ intending to rebid 3/4♦. I prefer the former, even though there is a chance we might miss a sharp 4♠. There are enough HCP outstanding and hearts missing that 2♦ is unlikely to end the bidding, and the ♣Q is wasted (actually negative!) value, reducing the chance that we miss a sharp 4♠ by not entering the bidding now.

If the opponents compete to 4♣/4♥ before I get to bid again I'm bidding 4♠. If they compete to 5♣ I'm in trouble and will pass.

As a point of interest, the alert is sloppy disclosure. There are a few different ways to play a Precision 2♣. In particular there is no universal agreement on how to bid hands with 4M5♣ and 11-15 HCP. I would make sure to ask for an explanation at some point before the play begins - in fact it might influence your decision to take out 5♣, and arguably even weighs in on choosing 3♦ over 2♦.

[P_Marlowe]

3C, should be Michaels, i.e spade + ?

There is nothing wrong with 2D, but I want to get spades in.
Given that 2C is also limited to 9-15, the Michaels does not show a garbage
hand, the min HCP strength gets compensated by the 65 shape.

And yes, precision is not sufficient, you should ask further, if you know it,
it describes the bid pretty well, althoug, there are precision variants, which
dont have a 4 card major included in the 2C bid.

[mycroft]

If 3♣ is "top and another", then great, use it. Otherwise, I like 2♦; it's possible we can get the spades in. Not sure what I'd do over 1♣ standard, frankly, except that it would be one level lower.

2♣ may be considered a weakness of Precision (and if you play (43)15s in the 2♣ call, it is much weaker), but there are many pluses, and this is one of them. Especially if fourth hand can 3♣ on Qx or 3♥ fit on (good 5)-3 and short diamonds.

[pilowsky]

I was also torn between 2♠ and 2♦.
I did ask about the meaning of 2♣, but with no answer, I was left to rely on my general knowledge about Precision.
I picked 2♠ so that I would have a rebid of 2♦ if things went pear-shaped.
Which they did.
In the end, we escaped with an undeserved 4H-1.

---

[akwoo]

Why did East pass 2SX originally? Was the double really penalty, or were they confused? I can't imagine playing the double as anything but heart showing, especially if 2C could be with 5 clubs. (For that matter, I think North should bid 3C - limit raise or better in spades - over the double, but I can understand not doing so.)

Also, I think you bid 4S over 4H. You've got a 5 loser hand and partner showed a fit.

[DavidKok]

akwoo, on 2021-November-22, 21:49, said:

Also, I think you bid 4S over 4H. You've got a 5 loser hand and partner showed a fit.

Partner passed first, and then freely raised in competition. I don't know what to make of it, but it's not a game try.

[P_Marlowe]

DavidKok, on 2021-November-23, 02:16, said:

Partner passed first, and then freely raised in competition. I don't know what to make of it, but it's not a game try.

Partner is a passed hand, but the 2nd pass I dont like.
He should either raise or redouble, he has a fit, he is alive.
What I would make of the delayed 3S bid is anyones guess, no idea,
I do funny things, if my mind starts to think about funny auctions.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[pilowsky]

After the double of 2S (which makes double-dummy - albeit with the considerable handicap of my declarer play), I am informed that there was a hushed silence somewhere in London.
As soon as I bid 3D, a howl of anguish emanated from the wife of my partner.
Or so I'm reliably informed.

I quite like playing online.

[Gilithin]

pilowsky, on 2021-November-22, 20:31, said:

I did ask about the meaning of 2♣, but with no answer, I was left to rely on my general knowledge about Precision.

If opponents provide only a convention name and refuse to provide a real explanation, you are under no obligation to continue bidding. The TD should insist on full disclosure being provided.

akwoo, on 2021-November-22, 21:49, said:

Why did East pass 2SX originally? Was the double really penalty, or were they confused? I can't imagine playing the double as anything but heart showing, especially if 2C could be with 5 clubs. (For that matter, I think North should bid 3C - limit raise or better in spades - over the double, but I can understand not doing so.)

I agree with your analysis here. Double should surely be showing hearts here but East's actions suggest otherwise. Once again here we have a lack of disclosure here - regardless of whether it promises hearts or is penalty, it should get an alert playing online.

DavidKok, on 2021-November-23, 02:16, said:

Partner passed first, and then freely raised in competition. I don't know what to make of it, but it's not a game try.

Competitive (weak) with 3-4 spades. What else?


I might have left things here but I took a moment to look up the board on BBO. Some things the OP failed to mention:-
- South alerted their 2♠ as "Exculpatory".
- East, an Indian player, used the alert of their Pass to ask what Exculpatory means.
- South alerted their 3♦ bid with "same as precision".
- South then alerted their final Pass with "aposiopesical".

So while the initial presentation tends to suggest that E-W were the pair mostly at fault for misinformation, it turns out that there is a good case that it was actually East's actions that caused the confusion. It is possible that that confusion continued into the play - West can make 11 tricks in hearts DD but misplayed it, perhaps due to the deliberately misleading alerts, to take just 9. Of the other declarers in 4 or 5♥, 17 of 21 made 10 or 11 tricks. So let's put aside the BS and get down to what really happened during this hand.

[DavidKok]

Gilithin, on 2021-November-23, 04:59, said:

Competitive (weak) with 3-4 spades. What else?

But not quite competitive enough for a raise on the previous round, it seems. 3♣ was available as an unambiguous strength-showing raise, so 3♠ on the previous round can be shaded.
In fact, partner can take protection against their 3♥ with heart weakness and only three spades in a weak hand. The delayed raise makes no sense to me whatsoever. A hand with spades, improved by diamonds, no defence against 3♥ but also not prepared to take out protection on the previous round? Of course North had nothing of the sort, but that is the type of hand compatible with the bidding.

[blackshoe]

As said upthread "Precision" is inadequate disclosure. What you should have done is said "Explain please". If they aren't forthcoming, call the director.

[pilowsky]

Gilithin, on 2021-November-23, 04:59, said:

So while the initial presentation tends to suggest that E-W were the pair mostly at fault for misinformation, it turns out that there is a good case that it was actually East's actions that caused the confusion. It is possible that that confusion continued into the play - West can make 11 tricks in hearts DD but misplayed it, perhaps due to the deliberately misleading alerts, to take just 9. Of the other declarers in 4 or 5♥, 17 of 21 made 10 or 11 tricks. So let's put aside the BS and get down to what really happened during this hand.

Your comment may be appropriate for a bricks and mortar Bridge club but it makes no sense on BBO.
BBO tournaments operate under a completely different set of rules.
The rules are called "standard" with a few add-ons such as "no rudeness", "English only" and sometimes "no psyches".

When someone fails to alert their bid, something that happens all the time, there is little anyone can do.
Your comment that the player is "Indian" (and presumably) therefore doesn't speak English well is a racist slur.

English is the lingua franca of the subcontinent.
When was the last time you played in an online tournament? Or used BBO at all?
I can't find any games with your username from the last 3 months.

[Gilithin]

pilowsky, on 2021-November-23, 15:25, said:

Your comment may be appropriate for a bricks and mortar Bridge club but it makes no sense on BBO.

Why?

pilowsky, on 2021-November-23, 15:25, said:

BBO tournaments operate under a completely different set of rules.
The rules are called "standard" with a few add-ons such as "no rudeness", "English only" and sometimes "no psyches".

One of the key differences is self-alerting. This has similarities to playing behind screens but very few of the BBO player base have much experience of that so it is often the part of the interface that takes the longest for new BBO users to get used to.

pilowsky, on 2021-November-23, 15:25, said:

When someone fails to alert their bid, something that happens all the time, there is little anyone can do.

At a club table, you can leave or, if the host, boot the offending player. In a tournament you can, as has already been pointed out by various posters, call the TD.

pilowsky, on 2021-November-23, 15:25, said:

Your comment that the player is "Indian" (and presumably) therefore doesn't speak English well is a racist slur.
English is the lingua franca of the subcontinent.

All of the Indians I have personally known have spoken English well and English may or may not have been the mother tongue of the opponents on this hand. Your choice of language for alerting would however be unsuitable even if you were playing in your native country. At an international table, it is completely inappropriate.

pilowsky, on 2021-November-23, 15:25, said:

When was the last time you played in an online tournament? Or used BBO at all?
I can't find any games with your username from the last 3 months.

Are your attempts at stalking of any relevance to the hand we are discussing? Is this really your best response to being asked for the true story of the hand?