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Not your usual 12 count

#1 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-April-29, 14:29



2. game forcing, clubs or balanced
2, diamonds. Partner isn't balanced and won't have 5 unless 6 5

First 2 rounds of bidding were straight forward, will you bid your spades again to show 7?
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#2 User is online   hrothgar 

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Posted 2021-April-29, 14:42

 jillybean, on 2021-April-29, 14:29, said:



2. game forcing, clubs or balanced
2, diamonds. Partner isn't balanced and won't have 5 unless 6 5

First 2 rounds of bidding were straight forward, will you bid your spades again to show 7?


There's an old saying that "Swans play best in the long suit"
I think that this might be the exception to the rule

The cards that I really care about are the AK of clubs, and I suspect that seeing clubs as trump will be the best way for me to figure this out.

Playing IMPS I think that I'd definitely bid 4

Tempted to do so at MP as well
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#3 User is online   DavidKok 

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Posted 2021-April-29, 14:46

4, we're probably headed for 6 but 7 might be on (or, if partner is somewhat broke for the auction, we may have to stop in 5).
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#4 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-April-29, 14:57

Can partner be 1444 or is he guaranteeing 5+ ?
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#5 User is online   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-April-29, 15:09

I would open North's hand 4 (Namyats) so with a self-sustaining suit just bid 4.
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#6 User is online   smerriman 

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Posted 2021-April-29, 15:10

If I bid 3:
- partner might raise to 4, and then what? It could be on a singleton, so I guess we're forced to pass, when grand could easily be on.
- or partner might bid 3N, or 4 or 4.. all of which I would have regretted not bidding 4 the first time.

So I'll bid 4 now.
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#7 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-April-29, 15:20

 Cyberyeti, on 2021-April-29, 14:57, said:

Can partner be 1444 or is he guaranteeing 5+ ?

Partner could be 1444, with 5 clubs he should bid 3/2
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
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#8 User is online   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-April-29, 15:23

Yep thinking about it further there's a possible slam there. Are you risking a 4 contract by bidding it directly?. Why not cue-bid . If partner takes it to 3NT then a following 4 bid indicates the slam try.
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#9 User is online   nullve 

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Posted 2021-April-29, 15:27

First things first:

https://www.bridgeba...m4m-over-1m-2m/
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#10 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-April-29, 15:33



4 kickback
4 1/4
4 Queen ask?
5 Yes Q + K
6

Are we done?
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
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#11 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2021-April-29, 15:41

 Cyberyeti, on 2021-April-29, 14:57, said:

Can partner be 1444 or is he guaranteeing 5+ ?

Surely 1444 bids 2N over 2S
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#12 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2021-April-29, 15:48

What's my "1 and a useful void" response to 4? I don't play Kickback because there are too many sequences that are a potential misunderstanding (like 4 Queen ask when it might be the best-scoring spot, off two aces), so I don't know. But I'm sure there is one - there aren't *fewer* sequences available than playing regular RKC, Shirley?
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#13 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-April-29, 16:02

 mycroft, on 2021-April-29, 15:48, said:

What's my "1 and a useful void" response to 4? I don't play Kickback because there are too many sequences that are a potential misunderstanding (like 4 Queen ask when it might be the best-scoring spot, off two aces), so I don't know. But I'm sure there is one - there aren't *fewer* sequences available than playing regular RKC, Shirley?

5 1/4 with useful void?
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#14 User is online   smerriman 

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Posted 2021-April-29, 16:08

 jillybean, on 2021-April-29, 16:02, said:

5 1/4 with useful void?

1/3. But yes, it definitely seems worth showing the void here, so I go with that.
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#15 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-April-29, 17:03

 mikeh, on 2021-April-29, 15:41, said:

Surely 1444 bids 2N over 2S


This was the question I was asking or is that the balanced option of the 2 only or do you just treat it as balanced at that point.
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#16 User is online   DavidKok 

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Posted 2021-April-29, 17:54

 mw64ahw, on 2021-April-29, 15:09, said:

I would open North's hand 4 (Namyats) so with a self-sustaining suit just bid 4.
Way too strong for a preempt in my opinion, partner will have no clue what to do if the opponents compete, or with a strong hand.

 mw64ahw, on 2021-April-29, 15:23, said:

Yep thinking about it further there's a possible slam there. Are you risking a 4 contract by bidding it directly?. Why not cue-bid . If partner takes it to 3NT then a following 4 bid indicates the slam try.
Bidding hearts now would be ambiguous about the strain, and jumping with hearts would confirm diamonds (for me). Let partner in on the secret that there's a club fit.

 Cyberyeti, on 2021-April-29, 17:03, said:

This was the question I was asking or is that the balanced option of the 2 only or do you just treat it as balanced at that point.
On the 2/1 auction 1-2; 2 we have not identified a strain to play in. With 1=4=4=4 and some values in all suits it would be very helpful if partner rebid 2NT, suggesting 3NT as a possible contract. In some sense it's not much different from bidding 1NT over 1 with the same distribution.

 jillybean, on 2021-April-29, 15:33, said:



4 kickback
4 1/4
4 Queen ask?
5 Yes Q + K
6

Are we done?
Other than the void-showing response already mentioned, it is inconvenient that your partner bids a keycard-asking tool when we are still unlimited. We don't know if their queen ask was an attempt to stop in 5 if she was missing (in which case the proper(?) 5 reply to the first question might have already sunk us) or an attempt for 7, but partner was discouraged by the lack of the king of hearts or diamonds. Personally I'd say there's too much uncertainty on the auction to overrule partner and raise on. They decided they knew what they were doing with 4, let's hope they were right.
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#17 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-April-29, 18:20

When you run out of intelligent ways to investigate grand slam it is time to stop.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#18 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-April-29, 22:38



6 gave us top board but not the optimal contract.
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
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#19 User is online   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-April-29, 23:24

 nullve, on 2021-April-29, 15:27, said:


My approach to 1M-2 aims to define openers strength/shape further
2 Min-2 asks for responses as below
2 4+other M Min+
2 4+ Int+
2NT 6+M Int+ w. void/singleton
--3 asks for further definition
----3 4+m
------3 Which?
--3X shows short suit
3 4+ Int+
3 Str+ (semi)balanced
3 5+ over 1
3M 6+M self-sufficient suit

With North's hand you have a Min hcp count, with an MLT < 5.5 so in slam territory if a fit is found.

With a self-sustaining suit and a fallback of 4 I bid 2NT with the advantage that the opponents will end up knowing little about partners shape

1-2
2NT - 3
3-3
3-4 SI/GF (given North has shown an Int+ hand) in
etc. using RKC/Kickbo

Opening 4 gets gets me to 7 after South starts a Slam bidding sequence using RKC/Kickbo
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#20 User is offline   Douglas43 

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Posted 2021-April-30, 02:10

 jillybean, on 2021-April-29, 22:38, said:



6 gave us top board but not the optimal contract.


If 6 gave you a top board then it was the optimal contract. Posted Image
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