[pilun]

We are talking about
(2♥/♠) - no - (no) - 2NT

In direct seat, it is normally 15-18, some suggest 16-19.
Is it less in the pass-out seat?

While you don't want to pass it out when you both have balanced 13-counts, how much can you afford to stretch?
13-16 ? 14-17?
Is there a standard?

It is worth noting that Lebensohl makes this awkward. If you are too strong for 2NT, you have to bid 3NT since double might receive a Lebensohl 2N from partner, exposing your KJx.

[DavidKok]

I play 16-19 in both direct and passout seat, although I think 15-18 is more common. I would hesitate to stretch in fourth seat. The point is that 2NT is very rarely the par of the deal, instead you are hoping that partner can raise you into game. With moderate values and some defense you are, on balance, better off taking your lumps defending. I sympathize with the unlucky player to hold a 15-point hand, you can stretch and upgrade to 16 with a lack of alternatives (but beware that partner may well raise you on 7-8 points). Taking action on 13-14 points, and even on flawed 15's, seems like a poor choice to me.

As for the Lebensohl consideration: too bad. You can either protect your KJx when 3NT might be on with let's say 16 opposite 8, or you can protect your holding when partner is weak and you want to play something on the 3-level. Pick one (I'd pick the 3NT games) and never speak of the other, there simply isn't enough bidding room to cater to both. As an aside, I know some people who play Lebensohl over a direct double but Reverse Lebensohl (direct bids are weak, all invitational(+) hands go through 2NT) over a 4th seat double. The idea behind this is that the doubler often has shortage in their long suit, so if 3NT is on partner's holding is the one that needs protection.

Lastly I'd like to point out that, statistically speaking (and especially at matchpoints), opening 2M and then seeing the auction go pass-pass-pass is often a poor result for the preemptor. The opponents apparently have insufficient values for game and no long suits worth mentioning, in light of which preempting is often anti-percentage. As a defender it pays to be aware of this, and not bail the opponents out on moderate values in a balanced hand.

[mycroft]

To emphasize DavidKok's last paragraph, from "Preempts from A to AZ" (explanations mostly omitted):

Quote

When you open the bidding with a preempt, there are really only three auctions you usually don't want to hear:

• 2♠-x-p-p; p
  
• 2♠-p-p-p "It is hard to believe, but these auctions are often far worse for your side than the ones where LHO has doubled your opening preempt."
  
• 2♠-p-p-x; p-p-p "This is the worst!"

That is the extent of the "bad news"; all other auctions rate to be "good news"...

[DavidKok]

mycroft, on 2021-March-16, 09:35, said:

To emphasize DavidKok's last paragraph, from "Preempts from A to AZ" (explanations mostly omitted):

I've read this book, and while this advice is good (although in my opinion inferior to Kit Woolsey's section on preempts in 'Matchpoints') there are a few more auctions where preempts go terribly wrong. The three classic auctions you quoted are all example auctions where having a hand with insufficient offensive potential might come back to bite you. Conversely, if partner decides to raise you (maybe even sacrifice, preemptively or no) then having extra defensive values can be costly as the sacrifice may be an unintended phantom, or a level too high. As far as I can tell the modern trend is shifting more and more towards worrying about extra defensive values in a preemptive hand, compared to worrying about not enough offensive values. As an example, nobody vulnerable first seat ♠QTxxxx, ♥x, ♦xx, ♣xxxx is a not-too-crazy preeempt (despite the lack of high spades) but ♠KTxxxx, ♥x, ♦Kx, ♣Kxxx is not, even though the spades are better.

[helene_t]

Since partner could have up to 10-11 points with shortness in opps' suit, we should strive to balance with 15 to protect our game.

I wouldn't balance with less than that. If we both have 14 points with 3+ in opps suit it's just bad luck.

[TMorris]

My direct 2NT is 15-17(18). Protective would be similar but I would go to a good 14 from time to time most probably when they are non-vul. Having said that I can't remember the last time I did it so it's every few years or so at most.

[pescetom]

TMorris, on 2021-March-17, 05:46, said:

Having said that I can't remember the last time I did it so it's every few years or so at most.

I was about to make the same point: this is not a frequent dilemma.