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They pre-empted in my suit Do you bid 4H?

#1 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2005-May-24, 17:59

Scoring: IMP


RHO opens 3♠

Your bid?
Wayne Burrows

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#2 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2005-May-24, 18:04

Pass for now.

Partner is allowed to bid still.

Someone has HCP in the minors.
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#3 User is offline   Echognome 

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Posted 2005-May-24, 18:10

I pass. Isn't the rule "never preempt over a preempt"? My partner would expect an opening hand if I bid 4♥, so I pass. If partner reopens with a double, I'm happy to sit it. If anything else happens I can decide later.
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#4 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2005-May-24, 19:10

4H. I would not be happy to sit a X alhtough its doubtful partner is going to X. And I do have an opening hand :P
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#5 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2005-May-24, 19:27

I am afraid to pass as for sure partner will come up with 4NT = minors. 4♥ for me.

Arend
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#6 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2005-May-24, 19:37

cherdano, on May 24 2005, 08:27 PM, said:

I am afraid to pass as for sure partner will come up with 4NT = minors. 4♥ for me.

Arend

Ya, and we bid 5H.

Great test of partnership trust or perhaps the last hand we ever play together as a partnership.

If we bid 4H we may still end up in 5H after p bids over us.
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#7 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2005-May-24, 19:43

4H too - with a mild - WTP?

if I catch pard with a mild heart fit, this hand will play nicely. Either LHO doesnt have a spade to lead or pard is void. even then, dummy will be ruffing over LHO.

Pard might have some nightmare 6-6 in the minors, but he rates to have roughly 2 hearts on the auction - maybe more.

if you pass, pard could balance with 4N - yuk! Better to mention the hearts now.
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#8 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2005-May-24, 19:46

mike777, on May 25 2005, 02:37 AM, said:

cherdano, on May 24 2005, 08:27 PM, said:

I am afraid to pass as for sure partner will come up with 4NT = minors. 4♥ for me.

Arend

Ya, and we bid 5H.

Great test of partnership trust or perhaps the last hand we ever play together as a partnership.

If we bid 4H we may still end up in 5H after p bids over us.

I think there are many hands that would bid 4NT if you pass, but pass if you bid 4♥. Partner will take 4♥ as a warning sign if he is 0=2=(6-5).

Arend
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#9 User is offline   HeartA 

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Posted 2005-May-25, 01:02

4♥
Senshu
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#10 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2005-May-25, 02:18

I've fallen into the trap of bidding on hands of type "1-suiter and long side suit of opps" twice. What happened on those occasions is pard was short in my suit and in opps suit and had some huge two-suiter in the other two. One time it was a 65, the other a 76(!!).

So basically I think you should pass this one. Perhaps pard can pass as well. If he bids you're in trouble, but I don't think bidding a straight 4H is going to do less harm than bidding hearts later. Even if it's 1 level higher...
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#11 User is offline   Chamaco 

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Posted 2005-May-25, 02:29

I pass. Maybe risking losing a NV game but avoiding severe penalty.
LHO may still have a stack of hearts.

With my spade length, pard is marked with shortness and will reopen if he's got anything useful
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#12 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2005-May-25, 04:53

if you know your p will dbl, I'll pass. Otherwise I'll bid 4♥
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#13 User is offline   flytoox 

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Posted 2005-May-25, 05:49

Pass is definitely wrong with this hand. Pd is marked with short spade. This implies you have heart fit. I would just bid 4H. I dont mind pd raise to 5 or 6. If you pass, pd is likely to bid some diamond. Even if he dbls, you dont know how many hearts you should bid. 4H, 5H,or 6H could all be right.
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#14 User is offline   bearmum 

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Posted 2005-May-25, 05:49

in a word -- NO :) I do not prempt over a prempt

IF I had a good opening bid WITHOUT the ♠ I (at favorable VUL) might venture a X :)
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#15 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2005-May-25, 05:53

flytoox, on May 25 2005, 11:49 AM, said:

Pass is definitely wrong with this hand. Pd is marked with short spade. This implies you have heart fit.

That's what I thought when it happened to me.. wrong answer! Pard was short in both mine and opps suit. Which is quite logical when you think about it.
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#16 User is offline   mcphee 

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Posted 2005-May-25, 06:43

I can't see passing really and if the hand on lead has short S it will likely be the lead. Do you really have such wonderful defense against 3S? You may beat 3S when you are cold for 6H when partner has H support. Just consider if you passed and partner did double, does this really look like a defensive hand or would it produce tremendous offense opposite 3H?
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#17 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2005-May-25, 08:04

4♥ to me, show ♥ now or never probably.
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#18 User is offline   Chamaco 

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Posted 2005-May-26, 06:32

Here are 40 simulated hands.

Draw your own conclusions on the bidding sequences :-)


====================
NOTE: EDITED AFTER JUSTIN's POST.
NO 6322's anymore.
18 hands out of 40 are 6331




Hand 1
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 2
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 3
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 4
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 6
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 6
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 7
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 8
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 9
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 10
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 11
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 12
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 13
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 14
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 15
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 16
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 17
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 18
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 19
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 20
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 21
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 22
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 23
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 24
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 25
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 26
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 27
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 28
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 29
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 30
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 31
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 32
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 33
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 34
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 35
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 36
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 37
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 38
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 39
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     



Hand 40
Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     

This post has been edited by Chamaco: 2005-May-26, 08:54

"Bridge is like dance: technique's important but what really matters is not to step on partner's feet !"
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#19 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2005-May-26, 07:45

The criteria for that simulation is way off. So many hands with 6 spades, including 6322. These are not 3S openers.
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#20 User is offline   Chamaco 

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Posted 2005-May-26, 07:52

Jlall, on May 26 2005, 01:45 PM, said:

The criteria for that simulation is way off. So many hands with 6 spades, including 6322. These are not 3S openers.

Ok, Justin, I used for criteria:

1) west < 10 hcp
2) suit quality: west has 6 spades and at most 1 loser or 7 spades and at most 2 slosers
3) no side 4 bagger
4) if 7 spades, no void

===============

Please correct/improve the criteria, and I'll rerun and repost :-)

In any case, I will include the hands with a 6 bagger, one-loser suit, and 6331 :-)
"Bridge is like dance: technique's important but what really matters is not to step on partner's feet !"
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