[FelicityR]

Given the limitations of rubber bridge - no fancy systems or conventions - I was still disappointed I ended up in the wrong contract (3NT) on this hand, let alone missing the 4-3 diamond slam that is available and is - please correct me if I'm wrong - about a 50% chance on the cards. How would you bid the cards in your system? And as always, thank you in advance for your replies.

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[Cyberyeti]

6♦ needs a 3-2 club break and 3-3 or 4-2 diamonds so yes is a touch above 50%, but it's only that good because of the J and 10 of diamonds which being split are almost impossible for either partner to know about.

You want so be in 5 of either minor, I'm not clear I get there.

[HardVector]

I'd probably been in 5c. 1c-(1s)-X-(2s)-3d-(p)-3h-(p)-3s-(p)-; I agree with. I would not bid 3n with the north cards, I'd bid 4c. It then goes 5c and I can't see north getting too excited about slam looking at 3 major suit losers you have to cover if you are 6/4. If you are 5/4, it's worse.

[GrahamJson]

Forget 6D. No pair can bid every slam going their way and this one looks like one you shouldn’t lose sleep over missing. The question is how to avoid 3NT, which is a very poor contract.

Firstly, I believe 3D is a significant underbid. I’d make it on a hand with an ace less than the actual hand, where you are just competing. So alternatives are 3S and 4D. Even if you make either of these bids you might easily land in the wrong contract. Over 3S N might bid 4H. I guess S could then try 5C, passed out (hopefully). Or if S rebids 4D N could “correct” to 5C. Or he might pass. Or, if feeling inspired, north might read you for 1246 distribution (with three hearts you might have doubled 2S) and good values in the minors, then, seeing his well fitting cards he can bid 6D.

There. I said 6D is easy to bid.

[msjennifer]

SIR,It is not clear whether it was a MP or IMP event or Butler event 1).For the' points dependents there are only 25 WORKING HCP..2) The slam is dubious on a heart lead 3)THE slam requires the clubs and diamonds to behave.4)Pray what will be the bidding IF OPPONENTS ARE SILENT THROUGHOUT.I am sure if any one will venture a 6D MOYSIAN fit slam on only a total 26 HCP,a not dependable Suit and more so in a MP event because the presence of all 4 top honours AND the 10 of diamonds is practically difficult to discover as also the Kx of clubs. Quite a few will play either in 3NT or 5D.Only a few trailing way down MAY POSSIBLY reach 6D.. THANKS.

[nudnikbp]

South could bid 4C instead of 3S. North should then raise to 5C. It looks like slam is hard to reach with these cards.

[pescetom]

nudnikbp, on 2019-May-03, 06:53, said:

South could bid 4C instead of 3S. North should then raise to 5C.

I agree.

HardVector, on 2019-May-02, 09:49, said:

I would not bid 3n with the north cards, I'd bid 4c. It then goes 5c and I can't see north getting too excited about slam looking at 3 major suit losers you have to cover if you are 6/4. If you are 5/4, it's worse.

If I was South it would go 4D (whatever that means in your slam investigational methods) not 5C. But we're going to stop in 5C all the same.

[miamijd]

This isn't easy.

Yes, 3D is an underbid. 3S or 4D is better. But after 3S, your partner is likely to bid 4H, and then what? How do you know if partner holds the hand he actually had or if he holds:

xx KQxxxx Jxx xx ?

There's just no way to tell.

On the other hand, if you bid 4D, what if partner has:

QJx Qxxx xxx Kxx ?

Now 3NT is the right spot; 5C will probably go set on the likely 3-1 split.

I think I probably bid 3S at South's second turn and pass North's 3NT or 4H rebid , thus ending up in the wrong spot. It's just "one of those hands."

[Stephen Tu]

I disagree that 3D is underbid. The negative double doesn't guarantee diamonds. We've had this discussion before, whether sequence like 1c-(1s)-dbl-p-2d should be reversing values or not. It ought to IMO, as you are forcing higher level on the club preference. This auction even more so.

North shouldn't bid 3nt over 3S. Partner has shown reverse + a moose. For a hand that's shown some ~7-9 hcp with 5 cd hearts, this has a lot of high cards in the right spots, I think North should bid 5c over 3s.

I also disagree that if North bids 4c over 3S that South should raise. South by bidding 3d and 3s has already bid very strongly and is forcing a bid from North both times. If North has enough for 5c he has to bid 5c. North's hand can be significantly worse for 5m with high cards in different suits.

[gszes]

Noone has mentioned that the 3d bid by south has (to me anyway) DENIED 3 hearts (no x over 2s). This is important because a lot of extra deduction/bids can be made once both players realize that south has a limited heart holding. North should have realized the futility of 3n when south chose 3d rather than 2/3n. Picturing south with at most 4 major suit cards means north should have been aiming the partnership toward a club contract since they do not have much in the way of extra values (that means I would have chosen 4c instead of 3h).

Over 4c south has an easy 4h bid in case p can play hearts opposite honor x and 5c should become the final resting spot. I am not good enough to get to 6d.

[miamijd]

I didn't mention this before, because the OP said nothing fancy but there is an easy way to get to a good spot here

My favorite convention-- good-bad 2NT.

Playing this treatment, 3d immediately would show an invite hand. 2nt followed by 3d over partner's 3c bid would show a game force, as partner doesn't show D with his X. I think you're good enough for the latter sequence. Now partner probably bids 3s with his hand. You bid 4c and you'll end up in 5 of a minor

Incidentally, without good-bad, I agree with Stephen that 3d shows extras here. You would pass with a minimum. But I evaluate this hand as worth a GF. I don't think Stephen thinks it is. It's close

I disagree with Stephen about 1c. (1s). X. (P). 2d. Standard is that this sequence does not show extras because otherwise you are stuck with something like

xx AK Qxxx. Kxxxx

I don't want to have to rebid 2c on this and I think opening 1d is an abomination

Cheers
Mike

[Stephen Tu]

miamijd, on 2019-May-03, 20:14, said:

I disagree with Stephen about 1c. (1s). X. (P). 2d. Standard is that this sequence does not show extras because otherwise you are stuck with something like

xx AK Qxxx. Kxxxx

I don't want to have to rebid 2c on this and I think opening 1d is an abomination

There's no standard here. The auction has been debated many times here, you can search "reverse negative double" or some such. I fall fairly strongly in the reverse shows extras camp. I want to have an easy natural bid when I do have a good hand, and I want to get to a sensible 1nt contract opposite 4432.

In any case, you aren't stuck. If you dislike 2c on this sort of hand, which I do also, just bid 1nt! It's easy to agree that it doesn't promise a stopper on this sort of auction. This rarely causes problems in my experience:

• partner often has a stopper since RHO didn't raise
• Even if they run the suit, at 1nt you usually aren't down off the top yet.
• You aren't in any worse a position than those playing a weak NT who would open 1nt on this hand to begin with.

The only thing is partner has to remember to confirm a stopper instead of blasting 3nt without one himself.

[dsLawsd]

Take the money and run- claim fast and play more hands and you will come out ahead without taxing partner(s).
Not that I want to be in slam at most forms of scoring unless only a top will do with the state of our score...

[GrahamJson]

The problem with claiming is that on a spade lead you only have eight top tricks.

As for sequences like 1C -(1S) - X - (P) - 2D, I would say that it is standard that this does not show extras as partner has implied either support (at least three) or extra values. If there is a raise to 2S I would compete with 3D on ant hand that I would otherwise have cheerfully bid two on, such as the actual hand minus an ace.

[dB451]

For me, responder's X is unlimited, and opener's 3D reverse does show extras - no worse than a five-loser hand. It's not unreasonable for responder to think that opener's 3D bid shows five cards, so responder, despite having only 2 obvious cover cards in the context of Diamonds (DA and CK, with only a possible ruff in Clubs, since partner bid the suit), may be willing to make a forward-going bid. If North judges NT to be unwise, and has tools to explore minor-suit slams (while being able to land safely at the five level if slam isn't there), they may choose that route. So, playing either Redwood or Kickback (preferring one of those over the possible ambiguity of Minorwood), North's jump to 4H over 3D would be 1430 (or 0314, by partnership preference) for Diamonds (yes, even though their negative double showed Hearts). South would respond 4S (1 or 4 keycards in Diamonds), North will infer 4 keycards, but should probably make a Queen-Ask with 5C (in general, reserving 4N as a bailout, though not particularly relevant here, where opener already decided against NT). Without the DQ, South would bail in 5D, but here, South simply bids 6D (confirming the DQ, and with no outside Kings to show). Given no worse than a 4-2 Diamond split (which will be true 78% of the time), and not suffering a 4-1 Club split or worse (which will only happen 38% of the time), South makes the slam. South wins any opening lead, plays A, then K of Diamonds for safety, then CK, CA, ruff a Club high, back to hand with a major Ace, draw trumps and run Clubs, losing only the last trick.

[Stephen Tu]

GrahamJson, on 2019-May-04, 01:34, said:

As for sequences like 1C -(1S) - X - (P) - 2D, I would say that it is standard that this does not show extras as partner has implied either support (at least three) or extra values. If there is a raise to 2S I would compete with 3D on ant hand that I would otherwise have cheerfully bid two on, such as the actual hand minus an ace.

Define "extras" (what's your min for this), and "support" (do you mean support for clubs, or support for diamonds?).

So if partner has Kxxx KQxx xxx xx he's supposed to pass over 1s?? Or 1nt and miss potential heart fit?
You really are happy competing to 3d on 13 opposite 8 on what might well be a 4-3 fit?

I personally don't want to be playing a lot of 4-3 fits unnecessarily, or drive to 3c in a 5-2, or play 3c when 1nt is easier. Nor with a good hand do I need to be forced to cue bid or jump robbing myself of room to describe my hand because reverse is NF.

[msjennifer]

miamijd, on 2019-May-03, 12:08, said:

This isn't easy.

Yes, 3D is an underbid. 3S or 4D is better. But after 3S, your partner is likely to bid 4H, and then what? How do you know if partner holds the hand he actually had or if he holds:

xx KQxxxx Jxx xx ?

There's just no way to tell.

On the other hand, if you bid 4D, what if partner has:

QJx Qxxx xxx Kxx ?

Now 3NT is the right spot; 5C will probably go set on the likely 3-1 split.

I think I probably bid 3S at South's second turn and pass North's 3NT or 4H rebid , thus ending up in the wrong spot. It's just "one of those hands."

Sir,I do not think that the hand xx-KQxxxx-Jxx-xx is possible .I strongly doubt anyone will make A NEGATIVE DOUBLE holding this.There are nine losers a raise by LHO is to be fully expected.Quite a few if not all play a 3H bid after a negative double as GF.Most play a 2H overcall NF and that is what this hand is worth.AT least if the bidding goes 2H-2S-AND PASS-pass -? you have the option to pass or bid 3H competitively.Very luckily the opener has a big hand and so is bidding 3D.What if his hand was Ax-xx-Axxx-Axxxx. There are only 7 losers and rule of 20 is also satisfied for a 1C bid.There is no choice . A 2H NFbid and not x stands out and not 3H after making a negative dbl.