[awm]

Which of East/West should have bid spades on this hand?

Scoring: IMP

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The auction at the table (east is dealer) was:

Pass - 1♦ - Pass - 3♦
All pass

This was a rather poor result, since 4♠ is making.

[mike777]

Yes, I open 1s but in any event why did P not overcall 1s?

[Fluffy]

I won't open 1♠, I would overcall 2♥ as major 2 suiter and if that was unavaible for agreements I would reopen with 3♠.

All in all West had 2 chances of enter the bidding, East never had a good one.

[inquiry]

I would open 1♠ with EAST (or west for that matter). Zar points, you know.

I would, reluctantly, overcall 1♠ with west hand. don't like the suit, but come one, can't afford to pass here. We can make 3♠ opposite as little as Axxx xx xxx xxxx if heart ACE is onside (2H, 1H ruff, 5S, DA), and give partner just a tiny bit more, we have a shot for game.

After P-1D-P-3D, i would consider bidding obar 3♠ suggesting spades and clubs, because I didn't open 2♠ and didn't make a takeout double, and did bid beyond 3♥. Finally, West needs to balance after 3D and two passes... .

I go with East should open 1♠ because that is hte first violation imho.

[HeartA]

inquiry, on May 9 2005, 06:32 PM, said:

I would open 1♠ with EAST (or west for that matter). Zar points, you know.

I would, reluctantly, overcall 1♠ with west hand. don't like the suit, but come one, can't afford to pass here. We can make 3♠ opposite as little as Axxx xx xxx xxxx if heart ACE is onside (2H, 1H ruff, 5S, DA), and give partner just a tiny bit more, we have a shot for game.

After P-1D-P-3D, i would consider bidding obar 3♠ suggesting spades and clubs, because I didn't open 2♠ and didn't make a takeout double, and did bid beyond 3♥.  Finally, West needs to balance after 3D and two passes... .

I go with East should open 1♠ because that is hte first violation imho.

I basically agree with Ben's analysis. I don't know which to vote (East to open or not is borderline).

[whereagles]

It's usually best to take early action at low level.

I might try open the 55 a weak 2S (yes, even vuln) or butting-in in 1S with the 64 across.

[P_Marlowe]

I think not opening the bidding is fine, at least
if you are playing sound openings, e.g. in a 2/1
system.

Not overcalling is also an action, i can
undestand , and reading the comments
written by the others, overcalling is not
clear cut for them as well.

Over 3D Eeat/West are fixed.

That's it, both choose reasonable action,
which did not work out on this deal.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: An option, if you cant bear to pass,
would have been a 2S opening bid by East,
as already suggested by whereagles,
the suit is nice, and the shape is also ok.
Personnaly I am always have a 6 carder, for a
weak two bid, but there are case, where a 5 carder
is sufficient.

[Chamaco]

Just got fixed.

At unfav vulnerability, opening 1st seat with less that 2 quick tricks may backfire.
Same can be said on overcalling an empty 6 card suit.

And, as others said, after the preemptive raise, E-W are fixed, it happens.

[joker_gib]

First of all, I have tools to open the east hand but if you don't have, pass is fine.

I'd have overcalled 1♠ with the west hand. Suit is inexistant but nice shape and 6 cards. Sometimes you have to live dangerously

Alain

[Gerben42]

I'm not opening East, unless it's 2♦ Wilkosz or similar.
West: I know the suit is not great but 1♠ is a must.

[Antoine Fourrière]

When you hold a six-card suit or two five-card suits and 9HCP, it looks like you're playing four-handed bridge.

In the absence of an equivalent to Wilkosz, East should open 2♠ (vul at imps costs more when you're wrong, but wins more when you're right, therefore it is irrelevant). 2♠ is superior to 1♠ because East should be more eager to be raised to game with four spades than with a fourteen count, but 1♠ is certainly better than pass.

West should overcall 1♠ or 2♠. The four hearts and the two defensive tricks point to 1♠, but the pressure factor and the overall value of the hand point to 2♠, so I view it as a toss-up. West should also open 1♠ or 2♠ if the EW hands were reversed.

[pclayton]

1. I wouldn't open east and if I do its 2♠. I don't mind 1♣ either. But I don't criticize an opening either.

2. Its not my style to overcall West's. The suit sucks (you don't want the lead) and you have a good 4 card major. Still, I don't think its terrible and could work out.

3. Over 3♦, I would probably overcall 3♠. Pard didn't overcall 1♥ (or 2♥) so a fit likely exists somewhere. But its still not 100%.

4. The only 100% action is the balance. West must balance over 3♦. The opponents have revealed a fit and limited their hands. And East should 'punish' pard by taking the push to 4♠.

Sometimes, several marginal decisions that compound each other can lead to a silly result. Usually, its overbidding thats involved, not hands like this.

[mikestar]

East should open this hand: 1s is best if you play light openings, otherwise 2S. But if your partnership agreements preclude both openings, then West must overcall notwithstanding the poor suit. This is key: West should know his partnerships opening bid standards and if East was likely to have had to pass a shapely hand with 8-10 HCP he must bid this hand; if East would open most or all hands of this type, it is safe to pass.

[Chamaco]

It seems to me that EW are making game only because of a magical fit ).

And I think the decisions should not be based on lucky layouts:
I mean, EW lost an 18-hcp game after all!

I know we should not be point counters, but still, I suppose that in most deals, the prudent EW policy may lead to missing perhaps a good 3 spades contract, which is not so bad a loss at IMPS, as long as you can defeat 3D (which is the case her with a spade lead and H return).

I wonder how obvious is wests overcall given that:
- we are red vs white
- pard is a passed hand
- opps strength is still unlimited
- the overcall may cause the wrong lead which might give away the contract if we defend.

If pard was unpassed hand, or one pard was passed hand, I'd be more confident.

Is it unreasonable to suggest that occasional such marginal games can be missed for the sake of discipline in overcalls and safety at unfavourable vuln ?

[mikestar]

Chamaco, on May 10 2005, 04:58 PM, said:

It seems to me that EW are making game only because of a magical fit ).

And I think the decisions should not be based on lucky layouts:
I mean, EW lost an 18-hcp game after all!

I know we should not be point counters, but still, I suppose that in most deals, the prudent EW policy may lead to missing perhaps a good 3 spades contract, which is not so bad a loss at IMPS, as long as you can defeat 3D (which is the case her with a spade lead and H return).

I wonder how obvious is wests overcall given that:
- we are red vs white
- pard is a passed hand
- opps strength is still unlimited
- the overcall may cause the wrong lead which might give away the contract if we defend.

If pard was unpassed hand, or one pard was passed hand, I'd be more confident.

Is it unreasonable to suggest that occasional such marginal games can be missed for the sake of discipline in overcalls and safety at unfavourable vuln ?

It's not just the games--losing the partscore battle is fairly cheap at imps, but is also very frequent if you don't get into the auction agressively. And thouhg the degree of trump fit is ususual, this is hardly a lucky layout--two six loser hands opposite each other and game is touch and go when LTC says slam. Of course there is wast in three suits.

[beatrix45]

These two timid souls had FOUR legitimate opportunities to bid the boss suit, though taken in isolation each decision was marginal. Imo, the most timid was not overcalling with nine HCP and six spades to the nine, and the second most was the final pass. One thing Roth-Stone's system showed bridge was that if one does not open light hands, then one has to be fearless in balancing.

[sceptic]

I wanted east to open, which means west should not have the decision to make an over call he has a straight forward 4 spade bid to game and if it goes down so be it.

I dont even think it needs thinking about, it is clear cut 1 spade any bid by opps and west puts us in game.

[sceptic]

I even think that 6 spades could be bid if opps were to bid 6 hearts over the one spade bid.