[plaur]

Scoring: XIMP

p - 1♣ - 2♦ - x
p - 2♠ - 3♦ all pass

---

BIL individual , no agreements SAYC. I attended a BIL teaching session which advocated that X does not show both majors, not even 4-3.
I planned to bid 3♣ over 2♠. Then I would have shown ♥suit, ♣support and invitational values, right?
Then came the unexpected 3♦ bid and well .. they stole it down 2.

- If you play that x does not show both majors, does 3♣ deny a major?
- If I bid 3♣ is p's 3♥ a ♥suit or just control showing looking for 3NT?
- Is it common or uncommon to play that 1mi - 2mi - x does not show both majors (say with a random BBO partner)?

[pclayton]

1. Double does not promise both majors; I play that it shows at least one off the following combo menu:

a) both majors
B ) one major and support
c) one major, a stop with an invite
d) one long major and not enough for a free bid

2. If pard bid 3♥ in the auction given, it sounds like pard is 4=3=1=5 and is looking for 3N or even a Moysian 4♥

3. With a random expert pard, the double should be more flexible than that. With a random unknown, you pays your money and you takes your chances.

[plaur]

pclayton, on May 1 2005, 03:09 AM, said:

B ) one major and support

OK, so you agree my X bid as pr B?

In the auction
1♣ - 2♦ - 3♣ - p
3♥
could 3♥ be natural or just control showing looking for 3NT?

[whereagles]

1C (2D) and 1D (2C) are two of the most annoying overcalls out there. So annoying there's even a case to bid 1m-(2om)-2M on 4 cards and 9 pts.

In this case I'd pass and hope pard can do something smart.

[mike777]

At the risk of confusing you more. Your bidding was wonderful up to pass. I strongly disagree with pass. I think your options are:
1) X =card showing
2) 4c=strong invite
3) 5c= blast and hope for many possible good hands from P that make.

At this point I play partner for:

KXXX=AQX=XX=KJXX
or
Kxxx=aqx=x=kjxxx

[plaur]

mike777, on May 1 2005, 03:43 PM, said:

At the risk of confusing  you more. Your bidding was wonderful up to pass.  I strongly disagree with pass. I think your options are:
1) X =card showing
2) 4c=strong invite
3) 5c= blast and hope for many possible good hands from P that make.

At this point I play partner for:

KXXX=AQX=XX=KJXX
or
Kxxx=aqx=x=kjxxx

Thanks. I thought about 4♣ and didnt bid it because of "The fear of missing 3NT"! I cannot bid 3NT so I need partner to do that :-) With me having shown 8+ sofar its very unlikely p can bid 3NT so I need to do something!

Why is X here 'card showing' rather than strictly penalty?

P was a bit stronger 4-2-2-5 with ♦A and ♠K and 3NT cold.

[whereagles]

It could only be pure penalty if you were playing with loonies who bid 2D + 3D on Kxxxx

[mike777]

I was worried this would be confusing.

When is X penalty or takeout or card showing or value showing or responsive or balancing?
This is a terribly complicated question.
Enjoy bridge, practice counting and worry about this question in 10 years.
My one sentence answer, is the better the player, lean more towards takeout and let your expert partner explain later what it really means and do not worry.


If your partner is true expert they will understand your level and be very very understanding. Tell them you are putting all your energy into counting and visualizing the hand and watch them smile and want to play with you again.

A much easier basic lesson on this hand:
Just think if your RHO had bid 3D the first time, ouch, now you and your partner have a real headache. 99.9% of time with weak hand bid it to standard max and then shut up. Best wishes.

[luke warm]

i like to play your first double as promising at least one major with at least 9 hcp (because of the level)... over 3♦ i would either x or bid 5♣... at this vul i would double because i think we can make more than a non vul game, but could be wrong