[Shugart23]

Partner and I do something that is similar to Ghestem (I think)....We bid 2NT to show the lower two suits; we cue bid to show the upper two suits and we bid 3C to show upper and lower. I don't know if this is the best method, but this is what we do.

We always have to clarify what we do when opponents have bid a short or artificial 1C or 1D.......I seek input as to what others might do, even if the use Michaels a similar problem is presented when Opponents open an artificial minor.

Thank you....I hope this question makes sense.

[Kungsgeten]

I've seen many play that (1C)-2D shows 5-5 majors over a short club.

[Shugart23]

Kungsgeten, on 2018-April-09, 07:21, said:

I've seen many play that (1C)-2D shows 5-5 majors over a short club.

Having both Majors isn't the problem I am studying.

The problem we run into is, suppose we have 5 cards in a Major and 5 cards in their short/artificial Minor bid........How do people play, say unusual 2NT showing the Minors, when they hear opponents open a Precision 1C ?

[Tramticket]

Over a "prepared club" we treat the club bid as natural and Ghestem is on.

Over an artificial 1♣ we play Truscott and Ghestem does not apply.

[steve2005]

There are many people who thinks it's better not to use Ghestem. This includes Pierre Ghestem!
You will find many versions of Ghestem. Also there is Questem.
I'm sure there are people who think one of the possibilities is best.

[steve2005]

The only Ghestem like bid I like is (1♣)-3♣ = ♦ & ♠.

[Shugart23]

Thanks...I really wasn't trying to get into a discussion of the pros and cons of Ghestem..... (actually, I think I am using Questem)

Let me ask my question a different way...Suppose your agreement is that you overcall 2NT to show the two lower unbid suits .....Do you tweak your agreement when you sit down to play against a Precision opponent ? eg...LHO opens 1D and your partner bids 2NT.....what is partner showing ? Minors or Clubs and Hearts ?

[Shugart23]

Tramticket, on 2018-April-09, 08:36, said:

Over a "prepared club" we treat the club bid as natural and Ghestem is on.

Over an artificial 1♣ we play Truscott and Ghestem does not apply.

Thanks...didn't see your response.........what do you do over an artificial 1D opening , say against Precision players ?

[Tramticket]

Shugart23, on 2018-April-09, 09:24, said:

Thanks...didn't see your response.........what do you do over an artificial 1D opening , say against Precision players ?

We treat a precision 1♦ as natural. It often shows diamonds.

[WellSpyder]

To summarise (most of these points have already been made):

Showing 2-suiters via Michaels, Ghestem or whatever relies on there being one suit that you don't need to show. So I think the default approach is to assume that "could be short" minor suit openings are natural, and to exclude that suit from the ones you are able to show, just as you would over a natural minor suit opening. A common alternative over a potentially short 1♣ for those who play Michaels is to keep 2♣ as natural and to use 2♦ to show the majors. Even in this case, though, I would expect the 1♣ opening bid to be treated as natural for the purposes of an unusual 2NT overcall. There is no convenient similar way of keeping a natural 2♦ overcall over a "could be short" 1♦ opening bid, so here 2♦ would still be used to show the majors.

It is usual to treat a strong 1♣ opening (eg Precision) differently, with lots of artificial defences available.

If you feel you need a method that keeps all 4 suits in play over "could be short" minor openings then you might want to consider your defence over a 1NT opening, where you have the same issue that you might have any of the 4 suits. Some people agree that 2-level bids over a strong 1♣ have exactly the same meaning that they have over a 1NT opening.

[Kungsgeten]

I personally play the following over a short (could be fewer than three) minor:

Pass = Could be a strong NT. Could be diamonds over a nebulous diamond opening.
Dbl = Take out. Unless "too strong to bid anything else" it shows at least 4-3 majors and at least 2 cards in the minor they didn't open.
1D/1M = Natural. The suit they opened is the cue bid.
1NT = 4M and a 5+m (could be the suit opened).
2C = Natural (now diamonds is the cue bid).
2D = Weak with hearts, or a two-suiter with both majors (max 6 losers).
2H = Weak with both majors.
2S = Weak.
2NT = Two-suiter with hearts and a minor. Max 6 losers.
3m = Two-suiter with spades and the bid minor. 5-6 losers.

I haven't got enough experience with the exotic overcalls yet, but seems to work okay so far.

[fromageGB]

I play almost as the OP, and think it is Questem. However, we play 2♦ over 1♣ to show extreme suits (giving up the WJO in diamonds). This means that any "extreme suits" bid can be passed, which is advantageous as responder cannot be sure of another bite at the cherry. It also keeps 2♠ in the frame.

As others say, any non-strong 1m open is overcalled this way, with different methods over strong openings. For me, it is two hearts over a strong 1♣ with both minors, being a relay to 2♠, which is passed if single-suited in spades, or taken out to 2NT with both minors.

With the "possibly short" 1♣, if 2-suited including clubs, we just bid the other suit.

[Shugart23]

I am thinking now along WellSpyder's comment....where all 4 suits are really still in play .

We currently use 'Hello' over strong 1C,strong 2C and strong 1 and 2 NT openings. 'Hello' allows the bidder to show all one suited and all combinations of two suited hands.....I think I might explore playing 'Hello' over weaker 'could be short 1C and could be short 1D' openings and just maybe even over weak 1NT openings and see where that leads........