What does "discard" mean? RR gets lucky
#21
Posted 2017-December-29, 09:41
I wish I had the creativity of Lamford so I could have had SB come up with this issue.
#22
Posted 2017-December-29, 12:45
5. If declarer indicates a play without designating either a suit or a rank (as by saying ‘play anything’ or words of like meaning) either defender may designate the play from dummy.
If declarer says "trump it" then I think that dummy has to play the lowest of the trump suit in dummy since declarer can be deemed to know the contract - which means he is deemed to know what a trump is since a trump is defined as : each card of the denomination named in a suit contract.
If he says "Win it" then dummy has to play a trump. (We have already been to the situation of what does this mean when it is not knowm by declarer which is the actual lowest card that will win the trick).
However: the word 'ruff' does not appear in the laws.
Dummy is now allowed to ensure that declarer follows suit, but of course this is not quite the position.
Get the facts. No matter what people say, get the facts from both sides BEFORE you make a ruling or leave the table.
Remember - just because a TD is called for one possible infraction, it does not mean that there are no others.
In a judgement case - always refer to other TDs and discuss the situation until they agree your decision is correct.
The hardest rulings are inevitably as a result of failure of being called at the correct time. ALWAYS penalize both sides if this happens.
#23
Posted 2017-December-29, 18:16
barmar, on 2017-December-27, 09:40, said:
"Declarer may enquire at his turn to play from dummy or from his own hand." Footnote 11 to Law 41C. No, the Rabbit cannot even be told that he is declarer and must work that out for himself. He will have to be told by someone that the lead is in dummy at trick 10, but not what the previous trick was or how he came to be in dummy.
#24
Posted 2017-December-29, 18:18
barmar, on 2017-December-29, 09:41, said:
I wish I had the creativity of Lamford so I could have had SB come up with this issue.
Is that a challenge for another thread?
#26
Posted 2017-December-31, 13:25
barmar, on 2017-December-31, 11:44, said:
We all know the answer is no.
"Robin Barker is a mathematician. ... All highly skilled in their respective fields and clearly accomplished bridge players."
#28
Posted 2018-January-03, 07:48
#29
Posted 2018-January-03, 08:57
VixTD, on 2018-January-03, 07:48, said:
He can do so if the Director is present (presumably) but not otherwise
LAW 42 - DUMMY’S RIGHTS
A. Absolute Rights
1. Dummy is entitled to give information, in the Director’s presence, as to fact or law.
(Although I suspect this was only intended to be when the director was called when attention was drawn to an irregularity)
(43A1c) Dummy must not participate in the play, nor may he communicate anything about the play to declarer.
(41C in part) ... After it is too late to have previous calls restated (see B), declarer or either defender, at his own turn to play, is entitled to be informed as to what the contract is and whether, but not by whom, it was doubled or redoubled. << this is the law that allows declarer to ask what is the contract. There is nothing in it that says he must be told what trumps are.>>
It doesn't say that he must ask for the information to be provided but I would have thought that (43A1c) above precludes dummy from telling him. ((HH repeatedly reminds RR what the contract is when he is playing against him)
Get the facts. No matter what people say, get the facts from both sides BEFORE you make a ruling or leave the table.
Remember - just because a TD is called for one possible infraction, it does not mean that there are no others.
In a judgement case - always refer to other TDs and discuss the situation until they agree your decision is correct.
The hardest rulings are inevitably as a result of failure of being called at the correct time. ALWAYS penalize both sides if this happens.
#30
Posted 2018-January-03, 09:29
weejonnie, on 2018-January-03, 08:57, said:
LAW 42 - DUMMY’S RIGHTS
A. Absolute Rights
1. Dummy is entitled to give information, in the Director’s presence, as to fact or law.
(Although I suspect this was only intended to be when the director was called when attention was drawn to an irregularity)
I've always understood it to mean that when the director is trying to gather facts, dummy is allowed to speak up.
Quote
(41C in part) ... After it is too late to have previous calls restated (see B), declarer or either defender, at his own turn to play, is entitled to be informed as to what the contract is and whether, but not by whom, it was doubled or redoubled. << this is the law that allows declarer to ask what is the contract. There is nothing in it that says he must be told what trumps are.>>
"What's trumps?"
"Sorry, can't tell you."
"What's the contract?"
"4 hearts"
"But you can't tell me what suit is trumps?"
"Nope"
"Who's on first base?"
"Yes"
#31
Posted 2018-January-03, 09:36
barmar, on 2018-January-03, 09:29, said:
"What's trumps?"
"Sorry, can't tell you."
"What's the contract?"
"4 hearts"
"But you can't tell me what suit is trumps?"
"Nope"
"Who's on first base?"
"Yes"
You may laugh - but that very same discussion (verbatim) is quoted in Julian Pottage's "Why you continue to lose at Bridge"
Mrs G: What are Trumps?
Mr S: I don't think you can ask that question.
Mr UE: True but my partner CAN ask what the contract is?
Mr S (nodding) : 7♠
Get the facts. No matter what people say, get the facts from both sides BEFORE you make a ruling or leave the table.
Remember - just because a TD is called for one possible infraction, it does not mean that there are no others.
In a judgement case - always refer to other TDs and discuss the situation until they agree your decision is correct.
The hardest rulings are inevitably as a result of failure of being called at the correct time. ALWAYS penalize both sides if this happens.
#32
Posted 2018-January-05, 08:39
#33
Posted 2018-January-05, 09:07
BudH, on 2018-January-05, 08:39, said:
This discussion reminds me of an episode from many years ago:
South was in a 4♥ contract after North had shown 4-4-4-1 with singleton Clubs.
For various reasons (unimportant here) I (West) led a club to partner's Ace, and he returned another high club. South followed suit, so did I, and declarer said: "Discard a heart"!
South now went into a tank which seemed to last forever, everybody waited patiently, but then suddenly he looked at the table and exclaimed: "Why have you all marked that trick as won by me"?
He must have had a temporary lapse and thought that he was playing in NT or something, but play eventually continued after we all had had our laughs.
(And South was a very experienced player!)
#34
Posted 2018-January-05, 10:00
BudH, on 2018-January-05, 08:39, said:
According to the Bridge World Dictionary, a discard is a plain-suit card other than the suit led, and a plain suit is a suit other than trumps. So when describing your discard system, you're explaining the meaning of cards when neither follow suit nor ruff.
The only time "discard" might mean "ruff" is when declarer is confused and uses that verb while also naming the trump suit. This is just a mistake, it doesn't change the definition.
If it became a widespread practice, the accepted definition of the word might change in time. In that case, we might also change how we describe defensive carding. Or not -- we live with ambiguity in the way people use the phrase "cue bid" (despite its widespread use for control bids, the BW Dictionary only lists the meaning where you bid an opponent's suit -- they're apparently prescriptivists rather than descriptivists).
#35
Posted 2018-January-05, 11:32
BudH, on 2018-January-05, 08:39, said:
No.
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#37
Posted 2018-January-05, 23:06
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean