Placement of suits at notrump
#21
Posted 2016-August-04, 10:07
#22
Posted 2016-August-04, 10:16
sanst, on 2016-August-04, 10:07, said:
I have already explained this in my previous response. Some specific memory aids are permitted by the laws. See Law 41C that addresses your first point. And Law 65 prescribes the arrangement of completed tricks.
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mstr-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#23
Posted 2016-August-04, 13:04
Do people do it? Yes. Do we care? Generally, no. I will explain that the process is illegal when I hear about someone doing it, or someone asking partner to do it; but frankly, compared to the other UI transmitted by the pairs that do that, it's ignorable.
I would be surprised if the Dutch allowed access to the contract and in particular the opening lead during play of the hand universally. It would be legal to make such a regulation, but it would be unusual.
There's a Law that describes how dummy is required to be laid out, which certainly does pass information (but how many people flower or short-side overlap dummy and don't get called on it, or gripe when asked to fix ♥QKJ74 (or even ♥KQ564)?) But that's required by Law. I have a very specific method of putting down dummy, because one of my partners has very bad eyesight, and he wants it that way: [trump]SHDC. But that doesn't pass any information he isn't entitled to know (that my hearts are in fact hearts and not diamonds), so it's legal. There are those who freak if dummy isn't colour-separated; I'll break my habit when partnering one of those, but again, it doesn't pass any UI.
#24
Posted 2016-August-04, 15:29
If I recall, declarer or either defender can ask "What is the contract?" at any time in the play. If I am correct, can dummy leave the final contract denomination (plus a dbl or redbl card, if applicable) from his/her bidding box onto the table for all to see? Where in the laws does it say such an overt display of this information is disallowed?
As we all know, in online play, one can see not only the contract but the entire bidding sequence any time during the play. And we accept it/are used to it.
#25
Posted 2016-August-04, 15:47
I guess there's never been common practice for how dummy is laid out in notrump contracts, so nothing got promulgated in the Laws.
Lots of people try to alternate the suit colors in dummy. I suppose that could also be considered illegal participation in the play, by assisting declarer in not confusing adjacent suits.
#26
Posted 2016-August-04, 16:21
shyams, on 2016-August-04, 15:29, said:
Not quite.
Quote
*Declarer may inquire at his turn to play from dummy or from his own hand.
shyams, on 2016-August-04, 15:29, said:
Even if you were correct, absent an enabling regulation by the Regulating Authority, Law 40C3{a} disallows it.
Quote
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#27
Posted 2016-August-04, 16:49
shyams, on 2016-August-04, 15:29, said:
The opening lead is not, though.
#28
Posted 2016-August-04, 17:26
Think of defenders. It's gone lead, play, finesse, tank, and I (second to play to this trick) ask "what's the contract?" Having found out the answer to my question, partner takes the setting trick instead of holding up and stopping the suit from running. Or, if that's too obvious, what if I look at my bidding box, where the contract is canted out, "just to remind me"?
It's very clear that the "opening lead on the left" is *intended to remind* declarer of the suit the opponents wanted to attack 5 or 6 tricks later when potentially she had forgotten. Therefore it's clearly an "aid to memory" illegal by 40C3a, unless overridden by the RA. There can not be another reason for the request/agreement.
#29
Posted 2016-August-05, 09:05
#30
Posted 2016-August-05, 09:11
Having an agreement to do it, similarly, seems to me to have no valid use other than memory aid.
#31
Posted 2016-August-05, 10:18
mycroft, on 2016-August-04, 17:26, said:
It's a stretch, but I think that there can.
suppose that you have operated this method for the last 10 years in ignorance of its breach of the laws, and now your dummy does it otherwise. You might not have required it as a memory aid but I can well imagine that you could be derailed if someone placed a suit there which was not the one led. Just as the laws seek to outlaw memory aids, they also seek to outlaw deliberate misdirection.
Either way - storm in teacup.
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mstr-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#32
Posted 2016-August-05, 13:53
#33
Posted 2016-August-05, 15:58
lexlogan, on 2016-August-05, 13:53, said:
FYP.
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#34
Posted 2016-August-06, 21:20
#35
Posted 2016-August-06, 21:40
That would be quite legal, just as is my own experience mentioned earlier in this thread, of placing clubs on the left if and only if NT.
All that is achieved by either method is to include NT in the perfectly legit memory aid of what is trump, alongside the existing legit aid when there is a trump suit.
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mstr-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#36
Posted 2016-August-06, 21:59
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#37
Posted 2016-August-08, 15:21
I usually try to put down the suit led last. The idea is let partner have at least a small opportunity to observe the hand as a whole before focusing on the opening lead.
I had never considered that it could be used as a memory aid but reading this thread has convinced me otherwise.
OTOH.......I won't get worried about it if an opponent does it for that reason. If they can't remember which suit was led, then being reminded of it will be of very small benefit.
#38
Posted 2016-August-08, 16:41
What is baby oil made of?