[kenberg]

Zelandakh, on 2016-July-15, 09:21, said:

If everyone did an hour of intensive exercise a day, it could potentially save health services an enormous amount of money.

Definitely. Burials are fairly cheap.

Joking of course (we always have to say this online). But I sometimes have to explain to over-enthusiastic people who lead exercise classes that I am not planning on a career professional sports.

[Zelandakh]

barmar, on 2016-July-16, 11:01, said:

I'm not sure: are you arguing for free health care that includes gym memberships and smoking cessation programs? Or saying that people should take better care of themselves so that health care would be more affordable for everyone, and the government wouldn't need to provide it (except for the indigent, who cant' afford most necessities of life)?

I realise you are American but not all health initiatives have to be about money or providing services with a monetary incentive. Simply motivating people to do things for themselves is often a much more successful strategy. Of course there is a cost in providing the marketing, one that you expect to recoup many times over in less strain on the primary healthcare side of things.

I was not arguing for or against any specific programs with my previous post and certainly not suggesting that the government should not provide healthcare. Indeed I am at a loss to see how you could possibly have gleaned that idea from my words!

[Elianna]

Zelandakh, on 2016-July-16, 18:10, said:

I realise you are American but not all health initiatives have to be about money or providing services with a monetary incentive. Simply motivating people to do things for themselves is often a much more successful strategy. Of course there is a cost in providing the marketing, one that you expect to recoup many times over in less strain on the primary healthcare side of things.

Interesting that you say this. One of the health care providers in CA seems to do just this - Kaiser Permanente (an HMO in CA - I don't know if they're nationwide) airs commercials promoting walking and other exercise.

[kenberg]

Elianna, on 2016-July-17, 01:02, said:

Interesting that you say this. One of the health care providers in CA seems to do just this - Kaiser Permanente (an HMO in CA - I don't know if they're nationwide) airs commercials promoting walking and other exercise.

Kaiser Permanente is here in Maryland and I have always thought of them as nationwide. They are often cited as a source for statistical studies.

Although retired, I still get my health insurance through the University. It has some different features from what the active faculty have, the most obvious being that Medicare is primary, Blue Cross- Blue Shield picks up where Medicare leaves off. This works very well, except that paperwork moves very slowly through Medicare. By the time Medicare sends something saying what they have paid I have often forgotten what it was about. But BC-BS seems on top of it so I can relax.

I pay a decent amount of money for all of this, but the coverage is very good so I largely ignore it all. Recent example: I got bit by a neighbors dog last Monday (my fault, the dog had made it clear that he was in a bad mood). I got a same day appointment with the doc, a shot, the wound cleaned out, stitches, no charge. I got antibiotics. Ten dollars. I had to go back Wednesday for more cleansing, no charge. I am to see him onThursday, but I may call and ask to see him earlier.

So for me, the health system works just fine and dandy. The choice that I have in docs is particularly important to me. When I attended the Univ. of Minn in the 1950s we had free access (or very low cost, I forget which) to the medical care at the Univ hospital. Fine enough, but you walked in and got the doc that they gave you. Every profession has a range of talent in it, and this fact was on clear display.

[Zelandakh]

Elianna, on 2016-July-17, 01:02, said:

Interesting that you say this. One of the health care providers in CA seems to do just this - Kaiser Permanente (an HMO in CA - I don't know if they're nationwide) airs commercials promoting walking and other exercise.

German health insurance also provides a financial incentive for membership of some sports clubs. That is a little different from free healthcare including gym membership and the like as advanced in Barry's post.

[barmar]

Zelandakh, on 2016-July-17, 09:57, said:

German health insurance also provides a financial incentive for membership of some sports clubs. That is a little different from free healthcare including gym membership and the like as advanced in Barry's post.

Many (most?) US health insurers also do. The insurance programs I've had will reimburse up to $150/year.

[kenberg]

Zelandakh, on 2016-July-17, 09:57, said:

German health insurance also provides a financial incentive for membership of some sports clubs. That is a little different from free healthcare including gym membership and the like as advanced in Barry's post.

I saw this television show where one of the characters said "I joined a health club and it didn't help a bit. Apparently you also have to go".

I got a kick out of that, but also there is a point to it. Becky and I belong to the Y, the cost is minimal. I am pretty sure they would give reduced rates to someone in tough financial straits. I also enjoy walking, in the neighborhood, in the woods, wherever, and that's free.

Incidentally I find the Y preferable to some of the more expensive clubs. The equipment is all I need, and I prefer the social atmosphere. There aren't any people discussing abs.

We have various programs here sponsored by local government and by hospitals that try to get people moving. You can lead a horse....

All of which leads to a piece in https://www.washingt...-honest-review/

I select a part:

Quote

Pokemon Go's innovation is that instead of going indoors to play video games, you have to go outdoors to play video games, but we are already getting around it by having people volunteer to drive you around in their cars and negate any fitness value the game might have had. Usually, if someone approaches you and says, "Hey, get into my car, and we might catch an imaginary knockoff dragon!" you telephone the police. Now you get in — and you pay them.

[onoway]

Couldn't believe there was actually a local ad for $20 someone will drive you around to find the pokemon hotspots or whatever they are. I suppose that's better than running over cliffs and ramming police cars but really.

[barmar]

Can Pokemon Guber be far behind?

[barmar]

So what do people think of Melania Trump apparently plagiarizing bits of Michelle Obama's speech to the 2008 DNC convention?

The points she was making were pretty generic, "mom and apple pie" ideas, so there was nothing partisan about it. But some entire sentences were verbatim matches to what Michelle said.

[PassedOut]

barmar, on 2016-July-19, 07:06, said:

So what do people think of Melania Trump apparently plagiarizing bits of Michelle Obama's speech to the 2008 DNC convention?

The points she was making were pretty generic, "mom and apple pie" ideas, so there was nothing partisan about it. But some entire sentences were verbatim matches to what Michelle said.

Her speechwriters are to blame, but there should have been some oversight. The chaos in the Trump campaign is telling.

[shyams]

barmar, on 2016-July-19, 07:06, said:

So what do people think of Melania Trump apparently plagiarizing bits of Michelle Obama's speech to the 2008 DNC convention?

The points she was making were pretty generic, "mom and apple pie" ideas, so there was nothing partisan about it. But some entire sentences were verbatim matches to what Michelle said.

Does her speech really matter? Melania will (technically) play no role in administration, if Trump were to become president. What she says is IMO irrelevant to the outcome of the elections.

[Winstonm]

barmar, on 2016-July-19, 07:06, said:

So what do people think of Melania Trump apparently plagiarizing bits of Michelle Obama's speech to the 2008 DNC convention?

The points she was making were pretty generic, "mom and apple pie" ideas, so there was nothing partisan about it. But some entire sentences were verbatim matches to what Michelle said.

What Melania said or did not say is irrelevant, IMO.

What is horrific, again, IMO, is that self-respect and common decency did not act as governors.

If anything is frightening, it is that there is so much blind white fury aimed at anything and everything non-white.

[kenberg]

Even as a retired person I do not have time to listen to Melania Trump. I listened to Cotton for a while. There are many fine people who I have no plans to listen to, either at the R convention or the D convention. I get tired of Sanders very quickly. And I hope HC tells BC to stay home and fix her a good meal.


I was watching one of the channels before the convention opening. People in the background were holding signs. "Jesus said you must be born again". "The Pope is the Anti-Christ". "Socialism sucks".

It's seriously embarrassing is what it is. I originally used a different modifier than "seriously" but it got changed to asterisks.

[barmar]

PassedOut, on 2016-July-19, 07:51, said:

Her speechwriters are to blame, but there should have been some oversight. The chaos in the Trump campaign is telling.

shyams, on 2016-July-19, 08:00, said:

Does her speech really matter? Melania will (technically) play no role in administration, if Trump were to become president. What she says is IMO irrelevant to the outcome of the elections.

Isn't PassedOut's point why it matters? If she'd written the speech herself, then it wouldn't matter because she's wouldn't be part of the administration (although there have been plenty of First Ladies who had significant influence on their husbands, e.g. Nancy Reagan and Eleanor Roosevelt, but I doubt Melania has such plans).

But her speechwriters are part of Donald's campaign team, and what they do reflects on Donald. Some will likely be part of his administration should he win, so they'll have a part in his policy-making. They're not as irrelevant as Melania.

Obama once was caught making a speech that copied from former MA Governor Deval Patrick. When this was noticed, he owned up to it and apologized for not attributing the source, he didn't claim it was a conspiracy by his political opponents.

Harry Truman was famous for saying "The Buck Stops Here". When someone on your team commits a faux pas, it's your fault. Hillary is responsible for her IT people's sloppy handling of the emails, and Trump is responsible for the content of Melania's speech.

[kenberg]

Yes, I suppose.

But while I never expect to get recognition as a leading feminist philosopher I would hope that any woman who stands up to give a speech on behalf of her husband, or on behalf of anything, has some say in what goes into it. You mention Eleanor Roosevelt and Nancy Reagan. I can't imagine either of them asking her husband's speechwriters to tell he what her opinion will be today.

As mentioned, I watched Cotton for a while. Blah Blah Blah.

I keep asking myself where the converts will come from. I seriously doubt anyone other than the most devoted Trump fan could watch this stuff for ten minutes.

I am not usually a negative person, or at least I don't think of myself as one, but it is all unbearable. Among the many imponderables is the evangelical support. If Donald Trump can convince evangelicals that he has come to Jesus I will nominate him for the Bernie Madoff huckster of the year award. Maybe huckster of the decade. Century?

[PassedOut]

kenberg, on 2016-July-19, 13:34, said:

But while I never expect to get recognition as a leading feminist philosopher I would hope that any woman who stands up to give a speech on behalf of her husband, or on behalf of anything, has some say in what goes into it. You mention Eleanor Roosevelt and Nancy Reagan. I can't imagine either of them asking her husband's speechwriters to tell he what her opinion will be today.

Still, no matter who wrote it, one couldn't help being moved by Melania Trump's description of The Donald's early career as a community organizer...

[helene_t]

barmar, on 2016-July-19, 11:52, said:

Isn't PassedOut's point why it matters? If she'd written the speech herself, then it wouldn't matter

Maybe she actually did write those parts herself: http://www.salon.com...aft_nbc_reports

[Winstonm]

PassedOut, on 2016-July-19, 15:06, said:

Still, no matter who wrote it, one couldn't help being moved by Melania Trump's description of The Donald's early career as a community organizer...

[cherdano]

I think Melania Trump wrote this part by herself. No professional speech writer would make such a mistake, and noone else in this campaign would look for inspiration from Michelle Obama.

Of course, that doesn't let the Trump campaign off the hook. A normal campaign would thoroughly vet the speech beforehand, and otherwise try some damage control instead of denial afterwards.