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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#18721 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-September-07, 09:55

View Postkenberg, on 2021-September-07, 08:46, said:

There was a time when Walter Cronkite was "the most trusted man in America". This was before we thought about trusting women as a source of news. This common thread is gone, and it will not be coming back. I have yet to hear any effective ideas for what to do about it.


Yes, and that conundrum fills me with more dread than any other piece of modern politics.

It reminds me of the show “The Good Fight” (season 5) in which average people decide to set up their own courts when they don’t like the law or the way it is enforced.

Without common reality there is mass schizophrenic delusions fed by whatever information source available.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#18722 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2021-September-07, 21:22

From Noah Smith's interview of Larry Summers:

Quote

https://noahpinion.s...GzoctQPCrM_ZlR4

N.S.: OK, so I think we've covered the inflation topic pretty thoroughly here; I'd like to touch on more general economic topics. Other than managing aggregate demand, what are your top economic policy priorities right now? If you were an economic adviser to the Biden administration, what would you be pushing the administration to do?

L.S.: I think the single highest return investment opportunity for the US right now is a major Marshall plan for covid containment. Beyond the moral case with millions dying around the world and the global economy losing trillions, there is the reality that no one is safe until everyone is safe because of mutations. There are the further considerations that there is no better way for us to garner international goodwill, contrasting ourselves favorably with China or assure the world is ready for the next pandemics that will surely come.

I think it’s reasonable to estimate that the global go forward cost of covid is 5 to 10 trillion. The expected costs of other pandemics over this decade are likely another 5 to 10 trillion. (The coronavirus risk is rising 5 to 10 percent a year according to the reinsurance industry.) Call the cost 15 trillion. If the US spent 100 billion over the next decade and it had only a 10 percent chance of reducing these costs by one third, the payoff would be 5 to 1.

In terms of ongoing investment areas, I’d highlight investment in R&D and in infrastructure. Work I have done with Ben Jones suggests an extremely high social rate of return to science. The inventors of quantum mechanics or PCs, monoclonal antibodies or far improved batteries capture only a small part of the benefits. It follows that without support investment will be way insufficient. I continue to think we underinvest in physical infrastructure and that it has a set of benefits like reducing trade barriers that comes from widening the scope for exchange

I think the agreements driven by Secretary Yellen on corporate taxation that move us towards stopping a race to the bottom rather than trying to win it. There is much more to do to increase tax progressivity by stopping abuses in areas ranging from estate taxes to Roth IRAs to charitable deductions.

Finally if I were in government I would be pushing for a trade strategy that recognized the importance of low priced inputs for the competitiveness of US exports. I’d also think,that forming economic alliances has to be part of a strategy for dealing with China.

If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#18723 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2021-September-08, 08:35

If the U.S. had six political parties, which one would you belong to?
If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#18724 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2021-September-08, 10:01

What does it mean to "never forget"?

Feels like something politicians say after something bad happens on their watch instead of "perhaps we should have seen that coming and taken steps to prevent it".
If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#18725 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2021-September-08, 12:41

Nate Cohn at NYT said:

The front lines of America’s cultural clashes have shifted in recent years. A vigorous wave of progressive activism has helped push the country’s culture to the left, inspiring a conservative backlash against everything from “critical race theory” to the purported cancellation of Dr. Seuss.

These skirmishes may be different in substance from those that proceeded them, but in the broadest sense they are only the latest manifestation of a half-century trend: the realignment of American politics along cultural and educational lines, and away from the class and income divisions that defined the two parties for much of the 20th century.

As they’ve grown in numbers, college graduates have instilled increasingly liberal cultural norms while gaining the power to nudge the Democratic Party to the left. Partly as a result, large portions of the party’s traditional working-class base have defected to the Republicans.

https://www.nytimes....uates-vote.html

If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#18726 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2021-September-08, 17:08

The blobs prove that the Australian voting system is better (but not perfect) than the US system.
non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
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#18727 User is online   johnu 

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Posted 2021-September-08, 18:03

View Postpilowsky, on 2021-September-08, 17:08, said:


I was expecting this type of blob, so I didn't watch the video.

Posted Image
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#18728 User is offline   Chas_P 

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Posted 2021-September-08, 18:49

View Posty66, on 2021-September-08, 08:35, said:


I didn't read the article. It required a subscription to the NYT. But if one of the choices was The Common Sense party that would be my choice.

Three yards of black fabric enshroud my computer terminal. I am mourning the passing of an old friend by the name of Common Sense. His obituary reads as follows: Common Sense, aka C.S., lived a long life, but died from heart failure at the brink of the millennium. No one really knows how old he was, his birth records were long ago entangled in miles and miles of bureaucratic red tape. Known affectionately to close friends as Horse Sense and Sound Thinking, he selflessly devoted himself to a life of service in homes, schools, hospitals and offices, helping folks get jobs done without a lot of fanfare, whooping and hollering.

Rules and regulations and petty, frivolous lawsuits held no power over C.S. A most reliable sage, he was credited with cultivating the ability to know when to come in out of the rain, the discovery that the early bird gets the worm and how to take the bitter with the sweet.

C.S. also developed sound financial policies (don’t spend more than you earn), reliable parenting strategies (the adult is in charge, not the kid) and prudent dietary plans (offset eggs and bacon with a little fiber and orange juice).

A veteran of the Industrial Revolution, the Great Depression, the Technological Revolution and the Smoking Crusades, C.S. survived sundry cultural and educational trends including disco, the men’s movement, body piercing, whole language and new math. C.S.’s health began declining in the late 1960s when he became infected with the If-It-Feels-Good, Do-It virus.

In the following decades, his waning strength proved no match for the ravages of overbearing federal and state rules and regulations and an oppressive tax code. C.S. was sapped of strength and the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband, criminals received better treatment than victims and judges stuck their noses in everything from Boy Scouts to professional baseball and golf.

His deterioration accelerated as schools implemented zero-tolerance policies. Reports of 6-year-old boys charged with sexual harassment for kissing classmates, a teen suspended for taking a swig of Scope mouthwash after lunch, girls suspended for possessing Midol and an honor student expelled for having a table knife in her school lunch were more than his heart could endure.

As the end neared, doctors say C.S. drifted in and out of logic but was kept informed of developments regarding regulations on low-flow toilets and mandatory air bags. Finally, upon hearing about a government plan to ban inhalers from 14 million asthmatics due to a trace of a pollutant that may be harmful to the environment, C.S. breathed his last.

Services will be at Whispering Pines Cemetery. C.S. was preceded in death by his wife, Discretion; one daughter, Responsibility; and one son, Reason. He is survived by two step-brothers, Half-Wit and Dim-Wit.

Memorial Contributions may be sent to the Institute for Rational Thought. Farewell, Common Sense. May you rest in peace.

#18729 User is offline   Gilithin 

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Posted 2021-September-08, 19:16

No doubt C.S. would be turning in her grave at the government stepping in to tell women that they have no rights over their bodies. Not to mention children separated from parents with no records kept to reunite them; taking the world largest debt and adding a few trillion dollars to it in a handout to the top 10%; answering a national gun death crisis by loosening gun restrictions; answering a contagious pandemic by preventing measures proven to prevent deaths and promoting untested, and in many cases dangerous, treatments; and of course, implementing as many undemocratic measures as possible in a desperate attempt to cling on to power with a clear minority of support. I cannot tell which of the 6 virtual parties C.S. would be a member of but I can guarantee it is neither of the two located in the top-right quadrant.
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#18730 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2021-September-08, 19:30

View Postjohnu, on 2021-September-08, 18:03, said:

I was expecting this type of blob, so I didn't watch the video.




An excellent film where the blob was destroyed by
Spoiler

Maybe they should have tried sunlight or bleach.
non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
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#18731 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2021-September-08, 19:40

View PostChas_P, on 2021-September-08, 18:49, said:

I didn't read the article. It required a subscription to the NYT. But if one of the choices was The Common Sense party that would be my choice.


Guess "The racist shiite heads" were full up...

FWIW, when you steal long blocks of text from other people, it's nice to provide attribution

https://www.loriborg...f-common-sense/

Otherwise, folks might think you were plagiarizing...
Alderaan delenda est
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#18732 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2021-September-09, 04:40

My new favo(u)rite website.

Learn how Robert E Lee would manage the war in Afghanistan.
https://www.donaldjt...ews-nqqxjy65sh0


non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
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#18733 User is offline   Chas_P 

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Posted 2021-September-09, 18:22

View Posthrothgar, on 2021-September-08, 19:40, said:

Guess "The racist shiite heads" were full up...

FWIW, when you steal long blocks of text from other people, it's nice to provide attribution

https://www.loriborg...f-common-sense/

Otherwise, folks might think you were plagiarizing...

Ok, I'll put it in quotes. Happy now?

Quote

Three yards of black fabric enshroud my computer terminal. I am mourning the passing of an old friend by the name of Common Sense. His obituary reads as follows: Common Sense, aka C.S., lived a long life, but died from heart failure at the brink of the millennium. No one really knows how old he was, his birth records were long ago entangled in miles and miles of bureaucratic red tape. Known affectionately to close friends as Horse Sense and Sound Thinking, he selflessly devoted himself to a life of service in homes, schools, hospitals and offices, helping folks get jobs done without a lot of fanfare, whooping and hollering.

Rules and regulations and petty, frivolous lawsuits held no power over C.S. A most reliable sage, he was credited with cultivating the ability to know when to come in out of the rain, the discovery that the early bird gets the worm and how to take the bitter with the sweet.

C.S. also developed sound financial policies (don’t spend more than you earn), reliable parenting strategies (the adult is in charge, not the kid) and prudent dietary plans (offset eggs and bacon with a little fiber and orange juice).

A veteran of the Industrial Revolution, the Great Depression, the Technological Revolution and the Smoking Crusades, C.S. survived sundry cultural and educational trends including disco, the men’s movement, body piercing, whole language and new math. C.S.’s health began declining in the late 1960s when he became infected with the If-It-Feels-Good, Do-It virus.

In the following decades, his waning strength proved no match for the ravages of overbearing federal and state rules and regulations and an oppressive tax code. C.S. was sapped of strength and the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband, criminals received better treatment than victims and judges stuck their noses in everything from Boy Scouts to professional baseball and golf.

His deterioration accelerated as schools implemented zero-tolerance policies. Reports of 6-year-old boys charged with sexual harassment for kissing classmates, a teen suspended for taking a swig of Scope mouthwash after lunch, girls suspended for possessing Midol and an honor student expelled for having a table knife in her school lunch were more than his heart could endure.

As the end neared, doctors say C.S. drifted in and out of logic but was kept informed of developments regarding regulations on low-flow toilets and mandatory air bags. Finally, upon hearing about a government plan to ban inhalers from 14 million asthmatics due to a trace of a pollutant that may be harmful to the environment, C.S. breathed his last.

Services will be at Whispering Pines Cemetery. C.S. was preceded in death by his wife, Discretion; one daughter, Responsibility; and one son, Reason. He is survived by two step-brothers, Half-Wit and Dim-Wit.

Memorial Contributions may be sent to the Institute for Rational Thought. Farewell, Common Sense. May you rest in peace.



#18734 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2021-September-09, 19:33

View PostChas_P, on 2021-September-09, 18:22, said:

Ok, I'll put it in quotes. Happy now?



It's a bit of a quandary. " provide attribution" means more than "put quote then slash quote around it". But if I say that, it suggests I believe you don't already know that. And then I sound naive.

As to the quiz, I took it twice, a few hours apart, and made a point of not asking myself what answer I had given the previous time. On the first run I came out as New Liberal, on the second as Labor. It's not a poll I would put much faith in. I took something like it (well, vaguely like it) in high school to see, on the basis of my responses to odd questions about music and so forth, what a good choice would be for a career. First and second recommendations were farmer and aviator. As with most advice I got from adults, I ignored it. Possibly I have not changed much in that regard.
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#18735 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2021-September-10, 13:40

View Postkenberg, on 2021-September-09, 19:33, said:

It's a bit of a quandary. " provide attribution" means more than "put quote then slash quote around it". But if I say that, it suggests I believe you don't already know that. And then I sound naive.

As to the quiz, I took it twice, a few hours apart, and made a point of not asking myself what answer I had given the previous time. On the first run I came out as New Liberal, on the second as Labor. It's not a poll I would put much faith in. I took something like it (well, vaguely like it) in high school to see, on the basis of my responses to odd questions about music and so forth, what a good choice would be for a career. First and second recommendations were farmer and aviator. As with most advice I got from adults, I ignored it. Possibly I have not changed much in that regard.

I'm halfway between the American Labor Party and the New Liberal Party on the "economically conservative" axis and slightly more "socially conservative" than the New Liberal Party.
If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#18736 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2021-September-10, 14:43

Here's the link to the quiz from the 2016 US Presidential election.


I just retook the Australian one from the last election (vote compass ABC Australia (My link) if you want to look it up).
They are all constructed by the same company.
As usual, I ended up almost exactly in the middle of the square.


So, I tried the US version, and it placed me almost on top of Jill Stein.
It seems that the average voter in America is incredibly conservative - including those that vote Democrat.


I recommend trying both (Scott Morrison=Trump, Pauline Hanson=MTG+LB+MattG), Richard DiNatale=Jill Stein) <--- for reference.

Some members of the Forum will be excited to know that the Australian version has a racism detector.
non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
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#18737 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2021-September-10, 14:54

View Posty66, on 2021-September-10, 13:40, said:

I'm halfway between the American Labor Party and the New Liberal Party on the "economically conservative" axis and slightly more "socially conservative" than the New Liberal Party.


I didn't look at it that closely.
Here is an example of why I am unenthusiastic about the questions. One question was whether I think it should be easier or harder to immigrate to the US. Well, I certainly don't think a criterion for entering the US should be the ability/willingness to walk from Guatemala to the US border. But is that what they mean? Maybe they mean shoould we accept more or fewer immigrants. If they had asked if I thought our immigration policies are seriously screwed up, that's an easy yes.

In college I took Psych 1 and 2 as part of some requirement to broaden my education. They had multiple choice exams. Mostly I showed up on exam days and skipped the lectures Multiple choice exams are easier if you don't know anything about the subject matter.
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#18738 User is offline   Gilithin 

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Posted 2021-September-10, 15:31

View Postpilowsky, on 2021-September-10, 14:43, said:

I just retook the Australian one from the last election (vote compass ABC Australia (My link) if you want to look it up).

I looked through the methodology but could not find where they state what they use for axes in their "abstract political landscape". Are they using the (popular in the US) economic vs social model, the more traditional (popular in Europe) radical-conservative vs authoritarian-liberal, or something else entirely?
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#18739 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2021-September-10, 15:46

Gotta say, that C.S. guy is an odd fellow.

He grew up when Black Americans were enslaved to work on cotton plantations, and it didn't bother him.
Traitors caused a civil war to defend their right to enslave African-Americans, and it didn't bother him.
Women had no rights to go to University, to vote, or not to get raped by their husbands, and it didn't bother him.
A world-wide war broke out for reasons no one could quite figure out, and it didn't bother him.
Decades of lynching and terrorism against African-Americans, and it didn't bother him.
Decades of politically motivated left-wing or right-wing terrorism, and it didn't bother him.

New pedagogical trends in reading or math, and it bothered him.
An insecure teacher here or there being overly strict in interpreting rule, and, what hadn't bothered him for centuries, suddenly bothered him.
The boy scouts, well it didn't bother him, but in fairness back when he died, nobody fully understood how much it should have bothered him.
The government made cars safer and reduced the waste of freshwater, and it bothered him.
The government stepped in when a company sold millions of albuterol inhalers, some of which contained no albuterol, and it bothered him. It bothered him so much, he followed those asthma patients who were unwittingly using a placebo inhaler into death.

I don't fault him, C.S. He grew up at a time when many didn't know any better.

But if you hold him up as an example for us now, that does raise some questions. I don't know the answer, but one of the plausible ones is "you are an ignorant racist misogynist a**hole". Or at least, you play one on BBF. The act gets a bit old, and maybe you aren't even sure any more whether it's an act.
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#18740 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-September-10, 18:16

View Postkenberg, on 2021-September-10, 14:54, said:

I didn't look at it that closely.
Here is an example of why I am unenthusiastic about the questions. One question was whether I think it should be easier or harder to immigrate to the US. Well, I certainly don't think a criterion for entering the US should be the ability/willingness to walk from Guatemala to the US border. But is that what they mean? Maybe they mean shoould we accept more or fewer immigrants. If they had asked if I thought our immigration policies are seriously screwed up, that's an easy yes.

In college I took Psych 1 and 2 as part of some requirement to broaden my education. They had multiple choice exams. Mostly I showed up on exam days and skipped the lectures Multiple choice exams are easier if you don't know anything about the subject matter.


Disclaimer: My understandings can be wrong. I am willing to learn.

Now, my grasp on things is that those walking from Guatemala to the U.S. border are not immigrants but asylum-seekers, and there is a difference. I don't think asylum seekers would affect the question about making immigration harder or easier.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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