[helene_t]

Beowulf, this hand is clearly balanced. That is not the problem. There are two reasons for opening 1d:
- partner may make a negative double of hearts
- if you open 1d partner knows more since you don't often (or simply don't) open 1d on a 3 card suit.

But mostly it doesn't matter which minor you open. It is strange that a system that is so horrible inefficient with respect to information transmitted by choice of minor suit has become so popular

[Vampyr]

beowulf, on 2015-March-17, 20:54, said:

Plenty of opinionated commenters on your choice of 1♣ opening. Best solution for this type of hand is for it to be in your 1NT range.

As I mentioned above, problem hands come up in weak NT systems too. Enough people play strong NT that it can't be a hopeless idea.

Quote

The trouble with considering this hand as balanced is that you won't be thrilled rebidding 1NT over a major,

Why not?

[mike777]

jodepp, on 2015-March-16, 13:01, said:

If playing support doubles, this isn't too hard. Pard has invitational values and knows you don't have three spades (or three spades to an honor - some pairs only offer the double with Qxx or better). If you happen to have a strong spade doubleton (or xxx) you can show it with 3♠. Maybe partner will want to try the 5=2 fit in game. Lacking such a doubleton, I'd Pass on general LTT grounds.

It's similar if not playing support doubles. Whether or not playing 'maximal' doubles, pard's double simply sounds like 'I have a good hand and don't know what to do'. Again I would Pass on general LTT principles.

As an aside, I confess to smirking when a player says something like 'If you had opened 1♦ like you're supposed to, you wouldn't be in this pickle'. What to open with 4=4 in the minors has been debated at length over the years (see Kantar and Roth's discussion on the merits of both choices). Even if I had opened 1♦ it's hardly clear to bid 4♣ now (I think I'd still Pass).

Regarding Al Roth, I have my doubts he would open this hand and therefor not have this problem.

Regarding the OP I am starting to think perhaps it was south that had the problem hand and made a poor choice with double. Perhaps south felt it was Al Roth who opened 1c and 3h was going to be destroyed or his side was cold for game.

[mike777]

jodepp, on 2015-March-16, 17:22, said:

Roth And Kantar's discussion is not as archaic as you imply. They discussed this - at length - in 'Bridge Today' magazine about 12 years ago if memory serves, taking opposing views. Personally my answer to this age-old question of whether to open 1♣ or 1♦ with 4=4 isn't mainstream - I say 'open whatever you want'.

What I smirk at are players who - in threads like this - imply that the thread author did something egregiously wrong by opening 1♣, especially when the choice of 1♣ is not demonstrably wrong and is a matter of personal and partnership preference.

Thanks for the opinion.

I pulled out my old Bridge Today notes from May 2007. Indeed Mr. Roth says it is almost always right to open 1c with 4-4 in the minors, since you give partner more room to describe his hand. In Mr. Roth's example it should be noted that he opened on:
AT82...2....QJT6....AKJT it should also be noted that his partner responds 1d on:
976...AJ9..AK9....6432


I have my doubts that Mr. Roth would have opened the OP hand with anything other than pass.

[wank]

1) opening 1♣ is fine. it has advantages (you can easily find your diamond fit if you open 1C, but finding your club fit might prove tricky if you open 1d). this type of auction is the only disadvantage. if this occurs at a lower level, bid NTs and wait for partner to check you have a stop.

2) now you just pass. 3h should go down on power. it didn't obviously. of course we're curious to know if partner had his bid.

[eagles123]

Partner Had

KQ954
T
QT8
KT74

[Cyberyeti]

How many clubs did your club show ?

I would have opened 1♦ and Xd 2♥ to show 4 clubs with this type of hand outside my NT range, now partner should bid clubs but this is not available to many.

[helene_t]

Cyberyeti, on 2015-March-19, 13:22, said:

How many clubs did your club show ?

Assuming we play support doubles, the second round pass shows 4+ clubs.

[Cyberyeti]

helene_t, on 2015-March-19, 13:52, said:

Assuming we play support doubles, the second round pass shows 4+ clubs.

Assuming that AND that you don't open 1♣ on all balanced hands.