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How deep is your love (of the rule of 15)? Bundesliga 2015, Match 3

#21 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2015-January-30, 19:11

View Postsfi, on 2015-January-26, 01:04, said:

The alternative is to play 2C as clubs or an invitational raise (which is, I believe, Drury's original idea). If you're not a passed hand you can throw balanced FG hands in as well, but I suspect this will be banned anywhere that doesn't allow system innovation.


We do the former. I think the latter is interesting, and I have sometimes wondered about using Drury by an unpassed hand, but there are a lot of hand-types to untangle here. Plus you lose your 2 rebid (I assume) which seems like a high price. I would be interested in knowing if it can be made to work, though.
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#22 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2015-January-30, 22:31

View PostVampyr, on 2015-January-30, 19:11, said:

We do the former. I think the latter is interesting, and I have sometimes wondered about using Drury by an unpassed hand, but there are a lot of hand-types to untangle here. Plus you lose your 2 rebid (I assume) which seems like a high price. I would be interested in knowing if it can be made to work, though.

It works very well when your club hands are of at least GF strength (invitational club hands being bid with a direct 3 or via 1NT), but I doubt it would work as well if you wanted to allow weaker club hands (the sort that would bid a 2/1 in simple ACOL).
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#23 User is offline   biggerclub 

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Posted 2015-January-31, 00:15

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#24 User is offline   Cthulhu D 

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Posted 2015-January-31, 07:14

I play the same thing as you - I've seen the results in this case so I am subconsciously biased, but I regularly pass similar hands 4th in because partner is more likely to have clubs and the points are 10-10-9-11 around the table best case, and if they don't open balanced 11 counts, it could be a lot worse than that (11-7-11 with no good suit, 11). I could lose a heart fit, but thems the breaks.
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#25 User is offline   sfi 

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Posted 2015-January-31, 15:21

View PostVampyr, on 2015-January-30, 19:11, said:

I think the latter is interesting, and I have sometimes wondered about using Drury by an unpassed hand, but there are a lot of hand-types to untangle here. Plus you lose your 2 rebid (I assume) which seems like a high price. I would be interested in knowing if it can be made to work, though.


I've played a version of this in most of my serious 5 card major partnerships over the past couple of years, including Precision (which we added 2/1 just for this), Polish Club with 2/1, straight 2/1, and Standard American.

The basic idea is that you have 4 possible types of hands:
- Invitational raise of the major (typically rebids 4M over an acceptance or 2M over a rejection)
- Balanced FG (rebids NT; you can allow a 3NT rebid to show a minimum with a doubleton trump, or use the jump for something else)
- Balanced minimum FG with fit (rebids 2M over an acceptance or 4M over a rejection)
- FG with clubs (bids something else, including 3M with 5+ clubs and 3 card support)

Opener then rebids:
- 2D to say "accept game try with nothing special to say" and opener clarifies hand.
- 2H (after 1S opening) to show 5/4, nebulous about whether accepting game try. Inv raise now bids 2S or 4H (with double fit, you want to be in game). Bad balanced FG raise bids 4S.
- 2M rejects game try.

In the standard system, we reversed the 2M and 2D responses and didn't cater for the balanced min with fit (that went into a 3NT response, if I recall). That all worked fine, but I've never worked out whether there was a reason for reversing the bids.

Advantages:
- You can invite and stop at the 2 level. That's a potential 5-6 IMPs every time you do this.
- Responder can easily show strong balanced hands, which is a problem in many systems.
- Responder can show strong (say 16+) balanced hands with a fit with a sequence like 1H-2C, 2D-2NT, 3C-3H. Now you are off to slam in a sensible way.
- Opener can take over and start a slam sequence by bidding above 2M ("I'm interested in slam opposite an invitational raise"). Responder now cooperates in the slam try rather than trying to show their hand.
- You gain a jump to the 3 level, which is typically preemptive, without having to give up other 3-level jump shifts to something like Bergen.

Disadvantages:
- Opener can't bid 2D naturally. The hand often gets to bid 3D naturally (even over 2S), so the real issue is not being able to show shape with the 5/5 hands since the diamond rebid is actually what gets lost.
- It can be susceptible to preemption, but they still need a hand willing to get in the middle of a potentially FG auction.
- The opponents get to double 2C for something.
- You lose preemptive value with your 3 card limit raises.

Overall, in my experience it is a big win. It's increasingly common among Australian players, but I think the ideas came from Europe (Germany maybe?) initially.
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#26 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2015-January-31, 17:29

It is a 1 opener for me.
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