[PassedOut]

mike777, on 2015-April-30, 22:30, said:

In any case those who advocate for other drug laws need to be clear on what they advocate.

At this point what they want seems to be all over the map and very unclear.

What approach would you suggest?

[y66]

From The Man Who Foresaw Baltimore:

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In 1967, the National Advisory Commission on Civil Disorders reviewed the events of the previous summer. Detroit, Newark and over a dozen other cities had struggled with intense episodes of violence and disorder. The disturbances were typically sparked by interactions with police, they began in African American inner-city neighborhoods, and young black men were often in the forefront of the confrontations with police and national guardsmen.

Analyzing these events, the Kerner Commission—named for its chair, Illinois Governor Otto Kerner–concluded: “Our nation is moving toward two societies, one black, one white–separate and unequal.” A solution would require “a commitment to national action–compassionate, massive and sustained. … From every American it will require new attitudes, new understanding, and, above all, new will.”

From The Marshall Project Interview with David Simon:

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What do people outside the city need to understand about what’s going on there — the death of Freddie Gray and the response to it?

I guess there's an awful lot to understand and I’m not sure I understand all of it. The part that seems systemic and connected is that the drug war — which Baltimore waged as aggressively as any American city — was transforming in terms of police/community relations, in terms of trust, particularly between the black community and the police department. Probable cause was destroyed by the drug war. It happened in stages, but even in the time that I was a police reporter, which would have been the early 80s to the early 90s, the need for police officers to address the basic rights of the people they were policing in Baltimore was minimized. It was done almost as a plan by the local government, by police commissioners and mayors, and it not only made everybody in these poor communities vulnerable to the most arbitrary behavior on the part of the police officers, it taught police officers how not to distinguish in ways that they once did.

The new attitudes, new understanding and commitment to national action that Kerner advocated are materializing on the criminal justice reform front. That's a start. It was something to see these 2 guys talking on the news last night about what the Coalition for Public Safety and others are doing on this front.

[PassedOut]

At least satire is not dead:

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International leaders expressed concern over the rising tide of racism and state violence in America, especially concerning the treatment of ethnic minorities in the country and the corruption in state security forces around the country when handling cases of police brutality. The latest crisis is taking place in Baltimore, Maryland, a once-bustling city on the country’s Eastern Seaboard, where an unarmed man named Freddie Gray died from a severed spine while in police custody.

Black Americans, a minority ethnic group, are killed by state security forces at a rate higher than the white majority population. Young, black American males are 21 times more likely to be shot by police than white American males.

The United Kingdom expressed concern over the troubling turn of events in America in the last several months. The country’s foreign ministry released a statement: “We call on the American regime to rein in the state security agents who have been brutalizing members of America’s ethnic minority groups. The equal application of the rule of law, as well as the respect for human rights of all citizens, black or white, is essential for a healthy democracy.” Britain has always maintained a keen interest in America, a former colony.

[kenberg]

Quote

What approach would you suggest?

I'm not a deep thinker on social issues and in fact I often distrust those who are. So here are my thoughts.

I drink coffee and red wine. There are some studies somewhere that purport to show there is benefit in doing so, but I drank these things long before the studies and I will continue to drink them if the claims of the studies are retracted. I hope these drinks continue to be legal, and I think that the voters are on my side with this.

I oppose the legalization of PCP. This doesn't much matter because there is no chance in hell that it will become legal. I don't know if it is legal in Amsterdam or not, but it is my understanding that they have re-thought some of their ideas about anything goes. My thoughts are that people who use PCP are going to be dead within the next few years and I don't want them taking anyone else with them.

I favor legalization of marijuana. People should be allowed to eat cream filled donuts coated heavily with sugar if they want to, and they can smoke pot while they do it if they want to.

I am less certain about cocaine. I understand it to be physically addictive. But then so are cigarettes, and alcohol is addictive for some. It is my understanding that crack cocaine is particularly addictive but this may be simply propaganda. It is also my understanding that the disparate sentences involving crack cocaine, compared with powder, were strongly supported by leaders within the African-American community at the time that crack was devastating black neighborhoods. Times change of course, and I think that equalizing penalties for crack and powder would now be right.

There are many many drugs out there, and much of the appeal is totally lost on me. When Becky had her knees replaced they gave her oxy-whatever. She took one pill and refused to take another. I had pretty much the same reaction when I had my rather large kidney stone blasted to pieces a few years ago. This stuff has street value? I don't get it.

Anyway, I am not really enthusiastic about having a nation of people strung out on drugs. The practice seems to hit the poor the hardest. They see little hope for their future, they turn to drugs, and any hope that there might have been now becomes totally destroyed. The legitimate purpose of druig laws would be in the hope that this destructive cycle can be interrupted, but I am not sure that much works. I think we should pay attention to those who have had direct experience working in neighborhoods where the problem is the greatest. They at least might know what they are talking about, I admit I do not.

[PassedOut]

kenberg, on 2015-May-01, 08:26, said:

Anyway, I am not really enthusiastic about having a nation of people strung out on drugs. The practice seems to hit the poor the hardest. They see little hope for their future, they turn to drugs, and any hope that there might have been now becomes totally destroyed. The legitimate purpose of drug laws would be in the hope that this destructive cycle can be interrupted, but I am not sure that much works.

Like most everyone, I too hate to see people ruin their lives.

But, like Ed, I'm more concerned about the crimes committed by those in desperate need of money to feed their addictions. And I'm more concerned about the huge sums of money going to drug lords, who then use that money to outfit private militias that are better armed than the police and that can subvert governments with bribery and violence.

I'd like to see the government address both problems by supplying free and unadulterated drugs like marijuana, heroin, cocaine, LSD, etc. (maybe not PCP) to those who request them. That would remove the need to commit crimes to support expensive drug habits and would choke the flow of money to drug lords.

I don't claim that this approach would solve everything, but it would be a lot better and cheaper than today's "war on drugs." There would still be some poor souls who would ruin their lives, although I expect that the number would be a lot fewer than today. A lot of the "ruins your life" aspect of drug addiction comes from the need to acquire money to support an illegal habit: risky behaviors, criminal activities, adulterated drugs, and jail. Take away those factors, and the situation with drug addicts would be similar to that we face today with alcoholism.

Note: I shouldn't have put marijuana in that group of free drugs, as it is likely milder than alcohol and states are already resolving that issue.

This post has been edited by PassedOut: 2015-May-01, 10:39

[billw55]

PassedOut, on 2015-May-01, 08:18, said:

At least satire is not dead:

PassedOut, on 2015-May-01, 09:31, said:

I'd like to see the government address both problems by supplying free and unadulterated drugs like marijuana, heroin, cocaine, LSD, etc. (maybe not PCP) to those who request them.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[PassedOut]

billw55, on 2015-May-01, 11:19, said:

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[y66]

In today's news: Senate Introduces ‘Gamechanger’ Criminal Justice Reform Bill. More at #JusticeReform