[kupi007]

You are 3 seat both nonvul with this hand Ktx, Jx, Ax, KJ9xxx, whats your opening, context is (11)12-14 NT, 5-card majors, 1club is any 15-20 NT without 5-card major or natural unbalanced 12+, so you dont have precision like 2club availble, would you open this hand 1club or 1NT, does style if whenever possible you avoid opening 1nt with 6 minor changes your decision?

[P_Marlowe]

If you dont like 1C and 1NT, you could also open 3C.

[gordontd]

 P_Marlowe, on 2014-October-13, 05:03, said:

If you dont like 1C and 1NT, you could also open 3C.

What a horrible idea!

[1eyedjack]

I would open it 1N at any position, any vulnerability and any method of scoring.

[P_Marlowe]

 gordontd, on 2014-October-13, 05:49, said:

What a horrible idea!

Why?

3rd position, you are green, game is basically out of the question, p denied a bal. 11 count,
so why not, if you want to go creative?

[akwoo]

As with 1eyedjack, 1N any position, vulnerability, or form of scoring.

But I want to add a philosophical explanation here.

I've always played in strong NT places, where most players open a strong NT.

When you adopt a different system, you want to bid so as to maximize the strengths of your system and minimize its weaknesses. So you generally want to use the features of your system whenever they give you a slight edge. If you don't want the variability that comes from playing an unusual system, you should just play something closer to the standard system in the first place.

Playing a weak NT gives two advantages:

1) When you open 1 of a minor, partner knows you have a hand that wants to compete and can generally survive actions that would be unsound over 1 of a minor if it could include 12-14 balanced hands.

2) When you open 1N, you somewhat preempt the opponents (at the risk of playing in a bad contract).

For this hand:

1) You don't want to play in 3♣, and hence you don't want partner to compete aggressively over a 1♠ overcall.

2) You need to preempt the opponents, and simultaneously 1N is a fairly safe contract for you, in that you even have a chance of escaping for down 1 opposite nothing from partner.

[MrAce]

 P_Marlowe, on 2014-October-13, 13:18, said:

Why?

3rd position, you are green, game is basically out of the question, p denied a bal. 11 count,
so why not, if you want to go creative?

It's not for being creative but for preventing them to get in with a major suit or both majors. Typical hand (if balanced) 2263 2236. But Gordon is also right that it has downsides. I would not do it unless I am swinging.

[gordontd]

 P_Marlowe, on 2014-October-13, 13:18, said:

Why?

3rd position, you are green, game is basically out of the question, p denied a bal. 11 count,
so why not, if you want to go creative?

You have a semi-balanced opening hand with most of your high-cards outside your suit. In what way would a "creative" opening of 3C be likely to help you?

[P_Marlowe]

 gordontd, on 2014-October-14, 01:32, said:

You have a semi-balanced opening hand with most of your high-cards outside your suit. In what way would a "creative" opening of 3C be likely to help you?

It keeps them out, intervention on the 2-level is easier then an intervention on the 3 level, they will also find it
harder to investigate if game is on or not, they have to guess.
Depends a little bit on the methods, that are in use against weak NT at the table.

The original poster said, it is against partnership style to open 1Nt with a 6 card minor, ... I wont argue,
everyone has its preference, and he also feels, that 1C makes it to easy for them to enter, so ...
the risk of going overboard is also fairly low, given that it would be a reasonable 2C precision opening bid,
which would usually lead to a 3C contract.

besides: The 3C opening would not occur to me in 1st or 2nd, but in 3rd basically anything goes.

[P_Marlowe]

 akwoo, on 2014-October-13, 17:08, said:

<snip>
But I want to add a philosophical explanation here.
<snip>

2) You need to preempt the opponents, and simultaneously 1N is a fairly safe contract for you, in that you even have a chance of escaping for down 1 opposite nothing from partner.

i am not arguing with your choice, but given that you mentioned philosophical points:
If you want to hurt them, you will only really achieve this, if you try to hit as hard as possible, which will also lead
to some scars on your side, i.e. if you are looking for safety, you basically reduce the chance to hurt them.

Of course hitting too hard means also that your stick may splitter, so you have to find the balance.

Playing in a strong NT field means, they dont have lots of experience defending against the weak NT,
hence you dont need to hit as hard as you may need to do, if they are used to play against the weak NT.

[the hog]

1NT for me also. 3C sucks.

[MrAce]

 P_Marlowe, on 2014-October-14, 02:23, said:

It keeps them out, intervention on the 2-level is easier then an intervention on the 3 level, they will also find it
harder to investigate if game is on or not, they have to guess. .

I know that and this is what I wrote in my previous post. Fwiw, I used this 3m bids a lot for a while in my younger ages. This is another thing I have yet to see a good result. In fact I bought the contract couple times when they have major part score, but I would probably buy it had I started 1m, because they were unlikely to bid 3M. But I also pushed to games, which were making, and they would have never bid it had I started 1m. Sometimes I found myself playing 6-1 minor when we had 5-2 major to play at 2 level or 6-3 other minor or some number of NT. What I am trying to say is, the results will be random.
But I hear what you saying, it is not as effective as it sounds to ear though. It was popular for a while.

[P_Marlowe]

 MrAce, on 2014-October-14, 05:19, said:

I know that and this is what I wrote in my previous post. Fwiw, I used this 3m bids a lot for a while in my younger ages.
<snip>
What I am trying to say is, the results will be random.

I am still young, but I get older faster every year, ... and I agree, 3m will randomize the results.