[MrAce]

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Team Game.

[mgoetze]

I would, but I'm not an expert.

[PhantomSac]

Bidding seems awful to me. Everything about our hand screams defense, even the JT of hearts for a possible trump promotion or trick combined with any honor from partner. And then there's that whole law of total tricks thing... 16 is a more common number than 17. Our clubs are well placed behind the club bidder.

Only reason to bid is to hope to get to game which seems really optimistic (and if you thought your hand was so good then X 2H), as a partscore decision it seems like both going down is way more likely than both making.

[PhantomSac]

Compared to say, JT of spades and 2 small hearts this hand is much better for defense whereas JT of spades and 2 small hearts would be much better for offense. It's a massive difference imo. If we are going to bid 3 over 3 on what will often be a hand that has 2 8 card fits we need good trumps and pure values. Ofc with JT of spades and 2 small hearts I would have doubled 2H already heh.

[the hog]

Bis what? 3S? No, that is horrible on this hand.

[nige1]

MrAce, on 2014-October-04, 17:35, said:

Team Game.

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IMO, In spite of the Hog's and Phantomsac's advice, 3♠ = 10, Pass = 9. Hoping partner has a bit in reserve for 2♠.

[allesfein]

My analysis: PASS!

i. Max points between E-W ≈ 25,
ii. Opps are NOT in game,
iii. At 3♥, N-S may make +120 or even +150, neither of which makes it worth a sacrifice when vulnerable,
iv. E-W might score +140 at 3♠, , but more likely -200 or worse (3♠-2 or 3♠X-1; losing 1 ♣(perhaps to a ruff), 1 ♦, likely 2 ♥, and likely at least 1♠)?
v. Why risk it when partner still has another call? With a strong opener, East has numerous options, including Pass!

[jogs]

I play double pinochle style. Once I pass I rarely bid again. Partner pushed them to 3♥. Be satisfied and defend.

[whereagles]

No bid.

Pard did a fine job of pushing opps into the danger zone. Let's not spoil his work

[gszes]

We have already limited our hand with pass over 2h and p has
undoubtedly been at least a tad conservative in their bidding
catering to the prospect of our being very short in spades.

We are close to an ace better than a min 1d overcall and we have
the (almost) max support p might expect from us given the bidding.
I agree that JT of spades and 2 small hearts would be better for
offense than defense I consider the difference closer to trivial
rather than massive (phantomsac). This is IMPS and pushing toward
an unlikely but not improbable game is much more rewarding than it
might be at MP.

SOTM considerations might convince me to defend but it is certainly
no crime to let p know about our extra values and support in a hand
that may happen to play quite well with our spades acting as a heart
pump deterrent.

[the hog]

gszes, on 2014-October-05, 11:42, said:

We have already limited our hand with pass over 2h and p has
undoubtedly been at least a tad conservative in their bidding
catering to the prospect of our being very short in spades.

We are close to an ace better than a min 1d overcall and we have
the (almost) max support p might expect from us given the bidding.
I agree that JT of spades and 2 small hearts would be better for
offense than defense I consider the difference closer to trivial
rather than massive (phantomsac). This is IMPS and pushing toward
an unlikely but not improbable game is much more rewarding than it
might be at MP.

SOTM considerations might convince me to defend but it is certainly
no crime to let p know about our extra values and support in a hand
that may happen to play quite well with our spades acting as a heart
pump deterrent.

"and support"
Are you looking at a different hand to me? Where is this support? xx is not support. JT is mild support.

"We are close to an ace better than a min 1d overcall"
Really? You appear to have a totally different philosophy to non space removing overcalls to mine. The 1D overcall has taken away NO ROOM whatsoever. I would not expect less for 1D. For me overcalls that take away no room are not just a random noise. (The exception to this is a 1S overcall as this is the boss suit.)

[gszes]

the hog, on 2014-October-05, 19:29, said:

"and support"
Are you looking at a different hand to me? Where is this support? xx is not support. JT is mild support.

"We are close to an ace better than a min 1d overcall"
Really? You appear to have a totally different philosophy to non space removing overcalls to mine. The 1D overcall has taken away NO ROOM whatsoever. I would not expect less for 1D. For me overcalls that take away no room are not just a random noise. (The exception to this is a 1S overcall as this is the boss suit.)

xx Axx AT9xxx xx I admit some might wish to overcall 2d with this collection and others may
pass But a 1d overcall seems very reasonable here (to me anyway) that is the basis for my
almost an ace better comment. xx support for a suit that has been bid and rebid by partner
is virtually as good as JT especially in this case where the spades may act as a speed bump
against heart pumps.

[chasetb]

The 1♦ bid is fine. However, at least half the time, our ♣Q is worthless, and ♥JT isn't worth squat on offense, so we aren't a King better than a minimum.

Not to mention we are VUL -> Pass

[MrAce]

the hog, on 2014-October-05, 19:29, said:

"and support"
Are you looking at a different hand to me? Where is this support? xx is not support. JT is mild support.

"We are close to an ace better than a min 1d overcall"
Really? You appear to have a totally different philosophy to non space removing overcalls to mine. The 1D overcall has taken away NO ROOM whatsoever. I would not expect less for 1D. For me overcalls that take away no room are not just a random noise. (The exception to this is a 1S overcall as this is the boss suit.)

-If you have enough cards in pd's suit which makes it 8+ cards combined, it is a support, of course. It may not be as good as JT support which I agree.
- I have been hearing this "non-space consuming" bs a lot lately. Space consuming is last priority when making an overcall, if at all. But people talking as if it is the first priority. Give me AKJxx ♦ and out, I am overcalling over 1♣, I have a good suit, I am at 1 level, and it is perfectly in my range of 1 level overcall.

I am not arguing that we should bid 3♠. I did at the table, call it a bad bid. I think (I maybe wrong) they play 1♥ showing 5+ and perhaps I shd have mentioned it. Here is the whole deal

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Other table 3♥ making +140 We made 3♠ +1 +170 (Jimmy ducked the first ♦)

Score does not justify my bid of course. If i felt comfortable with my bid, I would not have asked all of yours opinions. But I'd rather prefer Justin's criticism than telling things like a 2 card suit is not a support to pd's known AT LEAST 6 card suit.... or 1♦ overcall has to be a good hand. It's for some it's not for some others. You can criticize me for bidding 3/3 with possible 16 trumps and bad support, red vs white and IMP, which I will accept without a word. I was simply wondering if there are other maniacs like me who would bid 3♠ I found one!

Here is what I thought when bidding 3♠; If pd has 6322 hand we can lose 1 dia+2he +1 spade or 1dia + 3 he. I knew we could discard a card on dias and opponents do not have an easy timing for playing both trumps and cash 3 hearts. For example give pd AQJxxx xxx xx xx. Of course we may go down and my predictions could be wrong, which they were but in a good way. I use "The Law" as a guide but I do not follow it blindly. I had a plan when I bid 3♠ as I explained above and I thought, rightly or wrongly that we are very likely to make 3♠.