[eagles123]

Scoring mp
Vul we red they white
Both pairs wk nt 4 card M

1s p 1n

Ak6
Aj542
T982
K

Do people come in if so what with

Eagles

[wank]

it can all go terribly wrong but you have to suck it up and bid 2h imo, otherwise there's a distinct danger of clocking up an embarrassing number of 50s when you're cold for game.

[the_clown]

I would pass and double if they try to play in clubs. I agree that we may miss a game but overcalling vul at the 2 level with a crappy 5 card suit is even less appealing.

[ahydra]

Is it too much to ask for a handviewer?

---

If one has X then some sort of ELC (correct 2C to 2D to show reds) available, that'd be awesome, otherwise I guess yes we have to risk 2H. It's a sizeable risk at this vul. :/

ahydra

[eagles123]

sorry i posted on my phone couldn't find handviewever

[billw55]

I admit I would certainly pass.

However I have this creepy feeling I am supposed to bid. It feels like the kind of hand where Justin comes along and says it is a sure bid, maybe with a comment like "the kiddie table is over there".

[mikeh]

put me down for an easy, smooth pass.

the heart suit is too weak/short, the spade length is exactly wrong, the club K may be more useful on defence than offence. We can all see that there are layouts on which bidding is better than passing, but I don't think the odds favour that action.

I would not be at all surprised to learn that the OP passed and was later criticized for doing so by someone who loves to analyze bidding after seeing all the hands

[PhantomSac]

billw55, on 2014-July-11, 08:08, said:

However I have this creepy feeling I am supposed to bid. It feels like the kind of hand where Justin comes along and says it is a sure bid, maybe with a comment like "the kiddie table is over there".

LOL, well predictably I'm a monkey who would bid but I don't really have much of a problem with pass since the plan is to bid later in a hopefully more descriptive way (if they bid clubs). I like bidding immediately since we might get to the wrong red suit with the pass then X plan (MATCHPOINTS GOTTA PLAY THE MAJOR!), it preempts them if they do have a club fit (it will be harder to find), and there is some chance 1N will be passed out which kinda sucks (but might be a good thing also if 2H is down), or if they rebid 2S I will be forced to balance and that might be dangerous/still might get to the wrong suit. Also there is some chance we will miss a game if I start with a pass, I might have less values to balance and esp might not have the 5th heart so partner might not jump to 3H for instance after 1S P 1N p 2C p p X p ? when game makes.

I would pass if you reversed the red suits though. Obviously passing has benefits if diamonds is our fit on this hand, and might also benefit us greatly if we are in trouble on this hand.

[whereagles]

Seems like a good time to PASS

[rmnka447]

Pass without hesitation.

Over 1 ♠, responder's hand is almost a complete unknown -- just about any hand not good enough for a 2 level response. About the only thing you know about responder's hand is that there are probably not 3+ ♠ in it.

If opener is opening a 5+ card ♠ suit, it can be any opener from a scrawny 11 to just below a 2 ♣ opener.

However, if the opener has only a 4 card ♠ suit, then it would seem that 4 ♥s must also be held else one of a minor would have been opened. If opener has a balanced 4-4 major hand, then it must be equal or greater in value to your hand else a weak NT would have been opened.

So stepping into this auction is a huge risk. You're looking at a 15 count. Give opener 12 and responder 6, then partner can have maybe a 7 count at most which makes it a part score hand. Down 1 doubled or down 2 vulnerable (-200) is the kiss of death in matchpoint part score hands. +50 may not be a great result, but you'll likely have plenty of company making it an average/average - at worst.

[PhantomSac]

rmnka447, on 2014-July-11, 12:40, said:

So stepping into this auction is a huge risk. You're looking at a 15 count. Give opener 12 and responder 6, then partner can have maybe a 7 count at most which makes it a part score hand.

Giving them minimums of 12 and 6 is not realistic. The guy who responded white/red with 1N to 1S does not have a minimum of 6, he has a minimum of zero, so I don't really agree with "partner has maybe a 7 count at most." It doesn't really matter though, if my partner has a 7 count we have a majority of the points and likely have a fit, I would like to be competing on a "partscore hand" at MP.

Quote

+50 may not be a great result, but you'll likely have plenty of company making it an average/average - at worst.

I would expect that if someone passed, they are much more likely to be a good player than a bad one. That is, I expect all bad players to bid 2H on this hand since they have 15 points and a 5 card suit. It is only a good player who might think to pass. So I doubt we will have lots of company if we pass unless we are playing in a high quality field. I doubt we would have any company in a club game. Not that it matters, if you think passing is right then you should pass but it is not going to be a field action in almost any field.

I expect most people are planning to bid at some point anyways if the opps don't bid a red suit? eg 1S 1N 2S p p, or 1S 1N 2C p p, or 1S 1N 2C 2S. Is that correct?

[Bbradley62]

<<retracted>>

[helene_t]

rmnka447, on 2014-July-11, 12:40, said:

However, if the opener has only a 4 card ♠ suit, then it would seem that 4 ♥s must also be held else one of a minor would have been opened

No. With 44 majors you open 1H. What you do with four spades and four of a minor is a matter of agreement. With 4333 you open your four card suit

[SimonFa]

Professor Jack is always accusing me of being too passive so I really try to bid on poor hands, but I just couldn't bring myself to bid 2♥ on that hand. I'd rather take the snide comment from Professor Jack.

[Winstonm]

I pass. Quite frankly, I don't see the problem - I do see the risk of passing, mind you, but that not enough to justify getting into this auction at this time.

[jdgalt]

2H. Those four baby diamonds don't even enter into the picture.

[mcphee]

This is not the time to be entering the bidding, minus 200 loses to any part score and will be a sure zero. Partner is still going to have an opportunity to balance if 1N is passed around his way. If they bid clubs I have the right hand to get in with dble.

[P_Marlowe]

I would bid, even facing a forcing NT, which would make the intervention foolish,
nevermind.

But what ever you do, be sure you are on the same wavelength with your partner,
this is much more important than anything else.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[the hog]

I would pass at imps. This is clear imo. At mps I would venture a overcall if nv. Not at this vul obviously.

[helene_t]

PhantomSac, on 2014-July-11, 14:41, said:

Giving them minimums of 12 and 6 is not realistic. The guy who responded white/red with 1N to 1S does not have a minimum of 6, he has a minimum of zero, so I don't really agree with "partner has maybe a 7 count at most."

This hand was played in an English club (or maybe the Acol club on BBO?). I think it's fair to assume that openings can be light but responses will be sound. Opener is 10+ and responder is 6+ in my experience but maybe it's different where Eagles plays.