[wanoff]

We're due to play a match soon (EBU level 4) where oppo play 2NT opening as any 2 of C/D/H 5/4.

It looks ok to me under section 7C1(b)(iv) 2) of the Blue Book.
'At least 5-4 in two unspecified suits, neither of which may be the suit opened.
Note(a) For an opening bid of 2NT, there are no restrictions on which suits may be shown.'

But four pages later we have 8C4(b).
'A 2NT opening may be played as: Both minors, any agreed strength.'

I'm tempted to be sporting and defend it whatever the above means.
a) Can we agree to play against it, if illegal ?
b) How should we defend ?

[Vampyr]

wanoff, on 2014-March-15, 04:08, said:

It looks ok to me under section 7C1(b)(iv) 2) of the Blue Book.
'At least 5-4 in two unspecified suits, neither of which may be the suit opened.
Note(a) For an opening bid of 2NT, there are no restrictions on which suits may be shown.'

But four pages later we have 8C4(b).
'A 2NT opening may be played as: Both minors, any agreed strength.'

I have not yet opened the Blue Book, but I believe that the way methods are organised according to level has been revamped. Could this explain the discrepancy?

[paulg]

wanoff, on 2014-March-15, 04:08, said:

But four pages later we have 8C4(b).
'A 2NT opening may be played as: Both minors, any agreed strength.'

The introduction to section 8 explains how to derive a set of Level 3 permitted agreements for clubs and county associations that wish to run events at this level - this has been done as a subset of permitted Level 4 agreements. Section 8 is completely irrelevant to your Level 4 event.

[FrancesHinden]

wanoff, on 2014-March-15, 04:08, said:

We're due to play a match soon (EBU level 4) where oppo play 2NT opening as any 2 of C/D/H 5/4.

It looks ok to me under section 7C1(b)(iv) 2) of the Blue Book.
'At least 5-4 in two unspecified suits, neither of which may be the suit opened.
Note(a) For an opening bid of 2NT, there are no restrictions on which suits may be shown.'

But four pages later we have 8C4(b).
'A 2NT opening may be played as: Both minors, any agreed strength.'

I'm tempted to be sporting and defend it whatever the above means.
a) Can we agree to play against it, if illegal ?
b) How should we defend ?

a) I would have thought technically no, but in practice of course who is going to stop you?
b) 3 of a suit natural, opening bid values 6+ cards
double balanced high cards (say good 13+), subsequent doubles take-out (there's an argument for playing subsequent doubles penalties, but I think this is actually more difficult)
assume all suits are natural until you have smoked out opener's long suit
pass then double = take-out, could still be a good hand
3NT = natural
4C = both majors
4major to play

if you are going to come up against it a lot, you should get more sophisticated (and possibly change methods depending on vulnerability) but this is probably good enough
at favourable, no need to be aggressive if you can't make a take-out double as taking a few hundred against a mis-fit is no disaster
at red you have to be careful not to take 150 against a vul game

[wanoff]

paulg, on 2014-March-15, 08:26, said:

The introduction to section 8 explains how to derive a set of Level 3 permitted agreements for clubs and county associations that wish to run events at this level - this has been done as a subset of permitted Level 4 agreements. Section 8 is completely irrelevant to your Level 4 event.

Thanks, didn't spot the intro to section 8.

FrancesHinden, on 2014-March-15, 09:36, said:

a) I would have thought technically no, but in practice of course who is going to stop you?
b) 3 of a suit natural, opening bid values 6+ cards
double balanced high cards (say good 13+), subsequent doubles take-out (there's an argument for playing subsequent doubles penalties, but I think this is actually more difficult)
assume all suits are natural until you have smoked out opener's long suit
pass then double = take-out, could still be a good hand
3NT = natural
4C = both majors
4major to play

if you are going to come up against it a lot, you should get more sophisticated (and possibly change methods depending on vulnerability) but this is probably good enough
at favourable, no need to be aggressive if you can't make a take-out double as taking a few hundred against a mis-fit is no disaster
at red you have to be careful not to take 150 against a vul game

Cheers, will give that a try. Looks like there are similarities to standard methods over rescues of (1NT)-X.