[Kungsgeten]

I've been thinking about 4 card majors recently (very popular here in Sweden) and aggressiveness in natural systems. Playing 4 card majors and strong no trump makes opening 1M a potentially preemptive bid (for both sides ofcourse), the discussion has been had before. The preemptive merits of the weak no trump has also been discussed, with one of the major downsides being missing 4-4 major fits when it is "our hand" (responder has constructive values but to little to invite).

Do you know of a system using a weak no trump which denies a 4 card major? The main idea for such a system would be an aggressive but fairly natural style. Perhaps something like:

1♣ = 2+ suit; any 15--17 balanced (even with a five card major) or natural unbalanced
1♦ = 5+ suit, unbalanced
1♥/♠ = (11)12--14 balanced/4441 with 4+ major or 18--19 balanced with 5-card major or 5+ major unbalanced
1NT = (11)12--14 no 4+ major, may be semibalanced like 5422 or 6322

18--19 NT in such a system would be opened at the 2-level, perhaps dedicating 2♣ or 2♦ for this as the Italians do or play 2C as 18--19 balanced or strong and play some sort of transfer structure over this.

[glen]

 Kungsgeten, on 2014-February-03, 18:25, said:

Do you know of a system using a weak no trump which denies a 4 card major?

Matchpoint Precision (book by C. C. Wei, Ron Andersen)

see:
http://www.bridgebas...-4-card-majors/

[Siegmund]

I am a big fan, but there doesn't seem to be much written about it.

Currently I am using 11-14 no 4CM, with
2C = diamonds any strength, or invitational any shape; Keri-like
2D, 2H = Jacoby (signoff or GF, some extra followups for the GF hands)
2S = both minors
2N = clubs, weak or strong
3x = natural, forcing

but there is certainly merit in using 2M to play, if you can decide how you want to arrange other hands between 2C and 2D. It feels really odd not needing Stayman!

[PrecisionL]

I have played Match Point Precision with the opening 1NT, 13-15, denying a 4-cd major.

I have graduated to playing an opening bid of 1♦ promising a 4-cd major. Now use 2♣ and 2♦ opening bids as 6 of the minor or 5 of the minor and 4 of the other minor. I am very happy with this scheme

Reference: The Diamond Major - http://www.bridgeclu...ude/Diamond.htm

[PhilKing]

I played a system based on this concept for a while in the mid 1990s. There are a few additions and differences to your structure.

1. After a 1M opening, we used cooperative doubles (usually showing the balance of points and 4 good trumps or five weakish trumps) against overcalls. The point is that we are assumed to have a weak no trump with four of that major. We basically pull the double with a distributional hand unless we have three trumps, and leave the double in with a balanced hand. If partner has a rock-crusher double, he passes and waits for us to double.

2. I put the balanced 18-19 through 1♦-1M-1NT. I personally find this works well. Don't just put it through 2♦ because the Italians do!

3. We played some interesting responses to 1NT.

2♣ = a sign-off in any suit, or various invitational hands
2♦ = GF relay
2♥/♠ = invitational
2NT = pick a minor
3♣/♦ = pre
3♥/♠ = splinter

In essence, the system is pretty simple and brutally aggressive if you open 1M with most weak 4x5x hands.

[P_Marlowe]

 PhilKing, on 2014-February-04, 04:32, said:

I played a system based on this concept for a while in the mid 1990s. There are a few additions and differences to your structure.

1. After a 1M opening, we used cooperative doubles (usually showing the balance of points and 4 good trumps or five weakish trumps) against overcalls. The point is that we are assumed to have a weak no trump with four of that major. We basically pull the double with a distributional hand unless we have three trumps, and leave the double in with a balanced hand. If partner has a rock-crusher double, he passes and waits for us to double.

2. I put the balanced 18-19 through 1♦-1M-1NT. I personally find this works well. Don't just put it through 2♦ because the Italians do!

3. We played some interesting responses to 1NT.

2♣ = a sign-off in any suit, or various invitational hands
2♦ = GF relay
2♥/♠ = invitational
2NT = pick a minor
3♣/♦ = pre
3♥/♠ = splinter

In essence, the system is pretty simple and brutally aggressive if you open 1M with most weak 4x5x hands.

would this structure still work, if 1NT only denied a 4 card spade suit?

With kind regards
Marlowe

[dake50]

Develop two avenues.
First, because 1NT(I like 10-12) has little Major suit interest (only 5+M need explore M-fit),
jump to 3C,3D (~0-10 with 6-suit or M:2-2 and a 5-suit) eagerly
and takeout to 2C,2D(~0-10, 4+suit even as a pre-scramble) responding to 1NT.
Jump their Majors.
Second, put minor 1-suiters (little Major interest) into 2C,2D (10-16, 5+suit) openers.
Take away the 1-level when we won't need Major exploring.
Minors shouldn't play below 3-level against anyone asking "where are the Majors?", so get there quick.
Leave opponents little room to decide their Major game is/not on.
Esp as minor takeouts could be 0-10 with or without defense tricks.
Leave them 'find their fit' AND 'how high?' starting over 3C,3D.
How else do you hope to win in those 'we have a minor' against 'they have a Major' hands?

[PhilKing]

 P_Marlowe, on 2014-February-05, 09:31, said:

would this structure still work, if 1NT only denied a 4 card spade suit?

With kind regards
Marlowe

1NT would now contain hearts, which seems at odds with the ethos.

[P_Marlowe]

 PhilKing, on 2014-February-09, 18:44, said:

1NT would now contain hearts, which seems at odds with the ethos.

Sry, I dont understand this comment, may or may be due to the fact, that I am not
a native speaker.
To clarify: In my regular partnership we play, that 1NT basically denies only spades,
and currently we are using the regular followup, but I am on the lookout for structures,
that make use of this additional restriction of the NT opening bid.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[PhilKing]

 P_Marlowe, on 2014-February-12, 08:35, said:

Sry, I dont understand this comment, may or may be due to the fact, that I am not
a native speaker.
To clarify: In my regular partnership we play, that 1NT basically denies only spades,
and currently we are using the regular followup, but I am on the lookout for structures,
that make use of this additional restriction of the NT opening bid.

With kind regards
Marlowe

Well it's not a majorless no trump, which appears to be the topic.

You may as well ask, would the structure work if 1NT contained 4 and 5 card majors.

[Kungsgeten]

 P_Marlowe, on 2014-February-05, 09:31, said:

would this structure still work, if 1NT only denied a 4 card spade suit?

With kind regards
Marlowe

Actually I think you could play something similar, if you'd like.

1NT (denies 4 spades)--
2C = Sign off in any suit or various INV
2D = GF relay or INV with 4 hearts
2M = INV
2NT = Pick a minor
3m = Pre
3M = Splinter

1NT--2D;
2H = Any with 4+ clubs (but not 5 clubs and 4 hearts)
..2S = Relay
....2N = 4+ diamonds
......3C = Relay
........3D = 5-4 minors
..........3H = Relay
............3S = 2-2-4-5
............3N = 2-2-5-4
........3H = 2-3-4-4
........3S = 3-2-4-4
....3C = 4 hearts
......3D = Relay
........3H = 2-4-3-4
........3S = 3-4-2-4
....3D = 2-3-3-5
....3H = 3-2-3-5
....3S = 3-3-2-5
....3N = 3-3-3-4
..2N = INV with 4 hearts

2S = Max with 4+ diamonds (but not 5 diamonds and 4 hearts)
..2N = Relay
....3C = 4-4 diamonds and hearts
....3D+ = As 2NT answer below
..3N = Pass or correct to 4H

2N = Min with 4+ diamonds, not 4 hearts
..3C = Relay
....3D = 2-3-5-3
....3H = 3-2-5-3
....3S = 3-3-5-2
....3N = 3-3-4-3

3C = 4 hearts and a 5 card minor
..3D = Relay
....3H = 2-4-2-5
....3S = 2-4-5-2
..3H = INV

3D = 2-4-4-3 min
..3H = To play

3H = 3-4-4-2 min

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

1NT (denies 4 spades)--
2C = Sign off in any suit or various INV

what are the inv. hands?

#1 bal. inv.
#2 single suite in a min.
#3 4+ hearts, 5+ spades? => shown by bidding 2S over the 2D relais?
#4 ???

With kind regards
Marlowe

[hrothgar]

FWIW, playing MOSCITO I've found it useful to restrict whether the NT opener holds a 4 card major of a given range.
Modern MOSCITO uses an 11+ - 14 HCP 1NT opening

Holding 4 Hearts, the 1NT opener denies a balanced hand with 11+ - 12 HCP
Holding 4 Spades, the 1NT opener denies a balanced hand with 13 - 14 HCP

I've found that this works pretty well

It increases the likelihood that opener can show spades at the 1 level
If opener shows a heart suit and he's balanced, he has extra strength which will prove helpful if partner is balancing
There's not as much need for invitational sequences after Stayman

[Kungsgeten]

 P_Marlowe, on 2014-February-17, 09:47, said:

Hi,

1NT (denies 4 spades)--
2C = Sign off in any suit or various INV

what are the inv. hands?

#1 bal. inv.
#2 single suite in a min.
#3 4+ hearts, 5+ spades? => shown by bidding 2S over the 2D relais?
#4 ???

With kind regards
Marlowe

I do not know the original structure, only thought about the relays. I would probably use:

1NT--2C; 2D (forced):
2M = To play
2NT = INV
3m = INV
3H = INV with 5-5 majors
3S = GF with 5-5 majors

Holding 5 spades and 4 hearts would be a problem, perhaps

1NT--2S (INV with 5 spades);
pass = Min (you may play in a 5-2 spade fit instead of 4-4 hearts sometimes)
2NT = Max with 2 spades. Now 3H can ask about 4 hearts.
3NT = Max with 3 spades, suggestion to play
4S = Max with 3+ spades

You could also have 1NT--2S; 2NT as minimum with 2 spades and 4 hearts, and use 3H as max with 2 spades and 4 hearts. The problem is ofcourse that you tell a whole lot about opener's hand. This is true for 1NT--2D response too.

[whereagles]

I've also played that in the context of a 4-cards major variant of precision, but with a tweak:

1NT = weak. If max, 4M possible.

Then....

1NT 2C
2M --> automatically shows a max

1NT xfer
3M --> 4 cards, hence max

It worked fine.. and it would have worked even better if pard didn't keep forgetting the 1NT escape mechanism LOL