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When playing weak NT What's better here?

#21 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2013-September-12, 03:38

I said that dbl shows four spades, but if we play nonpromisory stayman, what can I do with a balanced invite without a 4-card major? I don't think pass will show that since I could also be broke with 4342.
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#22 User is offline   Mbodell 

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Posted 2013-September-13, 00:06

View PostDJNeill, on 2013-September-11, 21:36, said:

Tangent: if you are playing weak NT, see the weak NT system bible from Kokish-Kraft. It has a lot of good stuff, including something about this sequence.


I don't see this auction though including the 3. I'd guess, playing the Kokish-Kraft method that it would be cooperative penalty. But the key is that 2 showed 5 in that method so presumably opener is 5332 and a lot is already known. If you don't have that agreement and 2 only shows 4 then it is harder to tell and likely cooperative takeout.
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#23 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2013-September-13, 04:40

View PostfromageGB, on 2013-September-08, 14:53, said:

The double? On the face of it, 2 good possible meanings - game values with 4 spades, and maybe just less than game values not necessarily holding spades, ie penalty. If 2 promised a major, then I would think the former has more weight, otherwise the latter.


View Posthelene_t, on 2013-September-12, 03:38, said:

I said that dbl shows four spades, but if we play nonpromisory stayman, what can I do with a balanced invite without a 4-card major? I don't think pass will show that since I could also be broke with 4342.

This is more or less what I meant. You are making a X as a strength bid therefore penalty orientated, but as you will be invitational strength opener has the option of taking it out to 3NT if he has the hand.
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#24 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2013-September-13, 08:10

View Postgordontd, on 2013-September-08, 02:39, said:

Does the meaning of a call depend on the cards you hold?


Yes absolutely yes unless you are playing " Blind Man's Bridge"(!)
or the bid is conventional <_<
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#25 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2013-September-13, 09:31

View PostPhilG007, on 2013-September-13, 08:10, said:

Yes absolutely yes unless you are playing " Blind Man's Bridge"(!)
or the bid is conventional <_<

Could you provide an example, and an explanation as to how partner knows which meaning to explain if the opponents decide to ask.
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#26 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2013-September-13, 09:31

View PostZelandakh, on 2013-September-13, 09:31, said:

Could you provide an example, and an explanation as to how partner knows which meaning to explain if the opponents decide to ask.

I am not the person you asked. However, when partner's bid could be one thing or the other, and your own cards tell you which it is....then your answer if asked would be that it shows either one thing or the other (but not which). Otherwise, you would be disclosing what you have in your hand.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#27 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2013-September-15, 10:50

View Postaguahombre, on 2013-September-13, 09:31, said:

I am not the person you asked. However, when partner's bid could be one thing or the other, and your own cards tell you which it is....then your answer if asked would be that it shows either one thing or the other (but not which). Otherwise, you would be disclosing what you have in your hand.


Well, sure, but the either/or agreement is still in place before you pick up a hand.
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#28 User is offline   GreenMan 

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Posted 2013-September-15, 11:32

View Postaguahombre, on 2013-September-13, 09:31, said:

I am not the person you asked. However, when partner's bid could be one thing or the other, and your own cards tell you which it is....then your answer if asked would be that it shows either one thing or the other (but not which). Otherwise, you would be disclosing what you have in your hand.


And you could be wrong. I heard a story where a guy's call showed 5+ in some unspecified suit. He was sure it was spades, looking at his own hand, so he explained it that way. RHO was agitated but said nothing until she became dummy and put down a 9-card spade suit.
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#29 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2013-September-15, 13:39

View PostGreenMan, on 2013-September-15, 11:32, said:

And you could be wrong. I heard a story where a guy's call showed 5+ in some unspecified suit. He was sure it was spades, looking at his own hand, so he explained it that way. RHO was agitated but said nothing until she became dummy and put down a 9-card spade suit.

I would be agitated, too, if I thought there were 14 Spades in the deck.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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