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I was watching vugraph today, the match between Italy-Turkey jrs.
All vulnerable, teams, N held , rho opens 1♠
xxx
x
AKxxxx
JT9
Alfredo Versace was asked by other commentators if he would overcall with this (i will post his reply later)
1-How about you ?
2- What is the minimal change in this hand that would make it worth 2♦ overcall for you ?
What would Versace bid and what would you ?
#1
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Posted 2013-July-16, 08:45
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#2
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Posted 2013-July-16, 08:52
Presumably RHO opened 1♥ or 1♠?
I would consider bidding 2♦ if partner is a passed hand. Otherwise pass.
I would consider bidding 2♦ if partner is a passed hand. Otherwise pass.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
#3
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Posted 2013-July-16, 09:12
MrAce, on 2013-July-16, 08:45, said:
I was watching vugraph today, the match between Italy-Turkey jrs.
All vulnerable, teams, N held ♠ x x x ♥ x ♦ A K x x x x ♣ J T 9
Alfredo Versace was asked by other commentators if he would overcall with this (i will post his reply later)
1-How about you ?
2- What is the minimal change in this hand that would make it worth 2♦ overcall for you ?
All vulnerable, teams, N held ♠ x x x ♥ x ♦ A K x x x x ♣ J T 9
Alfredo Versace was asked by other commentators if he would overcall with this (i will post his reply later)
1-How about you ?
2- What is the minimal change in this hand that would make it worth 2♦ overcall for you ?
- On the actual hand, IMO: Pass = 10, 2♦ = 6, 3♦ = 4. Although standards for 2-level overcalls seem to be slipping -- and juniors tend to be adventurous.
- More conservative players would consider a two-level overcall with better trumps, e.g. ♠ x x x ♥ x ♦ A K J T x x ♣ J T 9
- Cowards, like me, require opening bid strength e.g ♠ x x x ♥ x ♦ A K Q J x x ♣ K x x
#4
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Posted 2013-July-16, 09:20
If RHO opened 1C, I would bid 1D now.
If RHO opened 1H, I would pass but bid 2D with xxx, x, AK10xxx, Kxx
If RHO opened 1H, I would pass but bid 2D with xxx, x, AK10xxx, KJx
If RHO opened 1S, I would pass but bid 2D with Kxx, x, AKJxxx, xxx (note: if compelled to hold xxx in spades over a 1S opening, my hand would be very good outside: xxx, Kxx, AKJxxx, A or close)
If RHO opened 1H, I would pass but bid 2D with xxx, x, AK10xxx, Kxx
If RHO opened 1H, I would pass but bid 2D with xxx, x, AK10xxx, KJx
If RHO opened 1S, I would pass but bid 2D with Kxx, x, AKJxxx, xxx (note: if compelled to hold xxx in spades over a 1S opening, my hand would be very good outside: xxx, Kxx, AKJxxx, A or close)
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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- Andy Bowles
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Posted 2013-July-16, 09:35
I wouldn't make a vulnerable two-level overcall with this. ♦10 plus another king would be enough for an overcall. ♦109 without any other honours would be enough for 3♦.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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Posted 2013-July-16, 10:11
I would say it depends.
If my partner prefers sound overcalls when vulnerable I would always pass without second thoughts.
Playing with a flexible partner I think its very close but I still pass, unless I feel that we need to do something. Then I will bid 2♦.
I will not consider 3♦ under any circumstances.
If my partner prefers sound overcalls when vulnerable I would always pass without second thoughts.
Playing with a flexible partner I think its very close but I still pass, unless I feel that we need to do something. Then I will bid 2♦.
I will not consider 3♦ under any circumstances.
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Posted 2013-July-16, 10:14
Versace would bid 2♦ over either major.
I am a paper tiger, so I will vote for 2♦ as well.
I am a paper tiger, so I will vote for 2♦ as well.
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Posted 2013-July-16, 10:49
PhilKing, on 2013-July-16, 10:14, said:
Versace would bid 2♦ over either major.
I am a paper tiger, so I will vote for 2♦ as well.
I am a paper tiger, so I will vote for 2♦ as well.
Italians are actually pretty solid overcallers compared to other top European players.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#9
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Posted 2013-July-16, 10:51
helene_t, on 2013-July-16, 08:52, said:
Presumably RHO opened 1♥ or 1♠?
I would consider bidding 2♦ if partner is a passed hand. Otherwise pass.
I would consider bidding 2♦ if partner is a passed hand. Otherwise pass.
Thank you Helen my bad, I edited the OP hope it works because I did it on my iphone
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
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Posted 2013-July-16, 11:16
MrAce, on 2013-July-16, 10:49, said:
Italians are actually pretty solid overcallers compared to other top European players.
The hands from my database do not reflect this view.
QTxxx and out is OK nv at the one-level for instance (Versace). Vul at the two-level is a different kettle of fish, of course ...
#11
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Posted 2013-July-16, 11:45
2D. Sue me.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
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Posted 2013-July-16, 11:58
PhilKing, on 2013-July-16, 11:16, said:
The hands from my database do not reflect this view.
QTxxx and out is OK nv at the one-level for instance (Versace). Vul at the two-level is a different kettle of fish, of course ...
QTxxx and out is OK nv at the one-level for instance (Versace). Vul at the two-level is a different kettle of fish, of course ...
I got this view from their system notes, interviews in past (if i remember correctly with bridge winners or another bridge site) and from people close to him. QTxxx and out totally surprised me i have to admit. If you say it is in your database i will take your word on it. I agree this is way too light even for me.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
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Posted 2013-July-16, 16:49
No, its not close for me. Even with QJT in clubs I would still pass.
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
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Posted 2013-July-16, 17:09
I would overcall, overcalling over 1S is w/e but I would not want to play a style where I passed over 1H. Passing with QJT of clubs is just very far from any style I have ever played.
Maybe this is true in general but Versace is as aggressive as any good player I've seen with overcalls, he is known for it.
Quote
Italians are actually pretty solid overcallers compared to other top European players.
Maybe this is true in general but Versace is as aggressive as any good player I've seen with overcalls, he is known for it.
blogging at http://www.justinlall.com
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Posted 2013-July-16, 17:12
PhilKing, on 2013-July-16, 11:16, said:
QTxxx and out is OK nv at the one-level for instance (Versace). Vul at the two-level is a different kettle of fish, of course ...
One of my very first hands with Kevin Bathurst I overcalled QTxxx xx xxxx xx over 1C w/r. He tried for slam and we went down 2 in 4S. I said not to worry, they make 130 so we'll win one. That pretty much set the tone for our partnership lol.
People think that kind of stuff is nutso which is fine but I don't think overcalling AKxxxx and JT9 at the 2 level is nearly as non mainstream. Maybe over 1S with 3 little spades it is.
blogging at http://www.justinlall.com
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Posted 2013-July-16, 21:34
very interesting thread but I got lost at the end...
all vul who is overcalling 2d with this hand and why?
all vul who is overcalling 2d with this hand and why?
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Posted 2013-July-16, 22:41
I am in no position to advise, debate, or predict Versace. However, if I overcall at the 2-level with 3 small spades behind 1♠ the rest of my hand will be a whole lot better than that one. Give me four small behind, and then it's a different story.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
#18
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Posted 2013-July-17, 03:06
Very borderline for me, I wouldn't mind if partner passed and I wouldn't mind if he overcalled.
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Posted 2013-July-17, 03:15
I will pass over 1♠ and bid 3♦ over 1♥. Change a small diamond to the queen and I would overcall 2♦ over 1♠.
(-: Zel :-)
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Posted 2013-July-17, 08:46
I'm even worse. I'd bid 3D: this suit,
no other major fit, lead this, no more to say.
Embarassed if DAK +HA+H-ruff beats their 4S and we lose 500.
no other major fit, lead this, no more to say.
Embarassed if DAK +HA+H-ruff beats their 4S and we lose 500.