[mikl_plkcc]

Hand 1

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21 HCPs, 2 losers

Hand 2

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12 HCPs, 3 losers

I opened both hand 2♣, feeling they were too strong to open at the 1-level by counting losers.

[Flameous]

I really dislike 2♣ openings. That said, I'd open the first one with it. I like to hold about 5 defensive tricks when opening 2♣ with shapely hands and this one has it. Also I basically just need two queens and fit for slam to be excellent so it would get hard after one level opening.

Hand number two I'd open 1♣, but I can understand 2♣ if you don't have any good ways to show GF single suiter with clubs. (With natural system you likely don't)

[straube]

I voted 2C for the first. In competition, I can treat this as a 1-suited hand if I must. The important thing is to convey to partner that I have a very good hand...and not just a distributional one. I voted for a hefty 5C for the second. It's just hard to find whether partner has the right cards for more. He could have wasted spades, for instance. I'd rather bid our probable game before the opponents find theirs.

[Fluffy]

opening second hand in 2♣ is a psyche.

First hand is fine.

[aguahombre]

Fluffy, on 2012-April-16, 09:02, said:

opening second hand in 2♣ is a psyche.

There might be some bean counting jurisdictions which would not allow 2C with that hand; but opening a strong, forcing bid with ten tricks is not a Psyche.

[neilkaz]

Fluffy, on 2012-April-16, 09:02, said:

opening second hand in 2♣ is a psyche.

First hand is fine.

A heavy 5♣ for me on the 2nd hand. I don't mind 1♣ but this looks like a preempt to me, and sometimes 5♣ gets X'd when making 11 or 12 tricks as it is possible for the opps to make a mistake.

[WellSpyder]

aguahombre, on 2012-April-16, 09:18, said:

There might be some bean counting jurisdictions which would not allow 2C with that hand; but opening a strong, forcing bid with ten tricks is not a Psyche.

The good news is that the EBU allows a strong 2C on this hand (or a strong 1C if that is your system - the regulations are the same for either). Although it does not have 16 points or satisfy the rule of 25, it does have 8 sure tricks.

It's not a bid I would want to make myself, though. I would prefer 1C in a standard system or 2C in Precision to the reverse. Or 5C, as others have suggested.

[dkham]

For the second hand I'd open 1♣ and rebid 5♣. Hopefully that shows partner a big club hand with some defence. The advantage of doing this over opening 5♣ is that partner might now find it easier to double the opponents (though he still won't know when to bid 6♣).

[Hanoi5]

Opening 2♣ with a two-suited hand is not recommended. In the first hand I'd open 1♥ confident that I'll be able to rebid almost any number of clubs in my next turn to make it game-forcing. I compare it to this next hand I faced yesterday:

♠AKQxx
♥AKT9x
♦K
♣KQ

Opening this hand with 1♠ will very likely leave you playing there. It's better to open 2♣ and then try to describe it.

The second hand doesn't call for a 2♣ opening either (unless you play precision ). I'm more thinking of 5♣, instead.

[Siegmund]

With the second hand, it helps to have an agreement that either 2C-then-4C or 2C-then-5C shows this type of hand, while 2C-then-3C shows the normal 21-pointer with 5 or 6 clubs. I'd rather try that with an unfamiliar partner than open 5C at least two and maybe more tricks heavy, depending on the vulnerability.

[mikeh]

With the first one, it's a mandatory 2♣ opening....even tho there is relatively little risk of 1♥ being passed out....which is one of the criteria I use....the reality is that there is virtually no possibility of partner ever appreciating the power of this hand no matter how we bid if we start with 1♥. Playing kokish in response to 2♣helps with hearts as the primary suit, especially if you use the waiting 2♦ bid with the vast majority of responding hands.

On the second, one of my rules is that a 2♣ opening bid should be able to double and defeat any slam they bid. It may seem a little old-fashioned, but it works for me. Since this hand cannot be sure of defeating 3 different slams, it doesn't measure up.

[Phil]

Some two suiters are awkward 2♣ openers. With the first, there's a fair chance the opponents will jam us in spades, but that is even more likely after we open 1♥. If the opponents do not bid, the 1st is very easy to show playing Kokish.

Strangely enough, even though I voted for 1♣ on the 2nd, I kind of like 2♣. If partner has a good hand, it will help us find slam - after all I do have 10 tricks. If the opponents are strong, its a very effective semi-psyche and could cause them to misjudge. If partner starts doubling, I will probably pull below the 6 level.

[inquiry]

Playing any standard method, I open the first 2♣ the second 1♣. Playing my system developed with the help of mishovnbg, I would open both hands with bids not mentioned by anyone else in this thread.

With hand one, I would open a forcing 3♣ (misiry) showing either:

• a three level preempt in diamonds, or
• a strong two suiter with clubs and one of the majors.

With hand two, I would open a forcing 2♦ (multi-2♦) showing either:

• weak two in one (either) of the majors
• A strong balanced hand (2
• A strong minor one suiter with 9-1/2 or 10 tricks)

So the use of misiry and multi explains the one other vote on each question....

[blackshoe]

Flameous, on 2012-April-15, 08:27, said:

I really dislike 2♣ openings. That said, I'd open the first one with it. I like to hold about 5 defensive tricks when opening 2♣ with shapely hands and this one has it. Also I basically just need two queens and fit for slam to be excellent so it would get hard after one level opening.

Hand number two I'd open 1♣, but I can understand 2♣ if you don't have any good ways to show GF single suiter with clubs. (With natural system you likely don't)

2♣-2any (showing controls)-3♦ shows a GF club single suiter in Romex.

[Trinidad]

Fluffy, on 2012-April-16, 09:02, said:

opening second hand in 2♣ is a psyche.

I would not open that hand with 2♣. But I think that a 5♣ opening comes closer to a psyche than a 2♣ opening.

I am shocked that, so far, no one has suggested the descriptive opening bid of 1NT.

Rik

[rmnka447]

Hand 1 is clearly a 2 ♣ opener. It may be awkward to bid, but at least partner will know you have a big hand. The problem with opening with a 1 bid is that it could be passed out. If partner responds, partner may never ever be able to envision that your hand is as strong as it is and slam may still be missed.

The second hand I would also open 2 ♣. You have 3 losers outside of ♣s. So the question becomes whether ♣ AKJ ninth has a loser or not. I think the percentages of someone holding ♣ Qxx is low enough to make the hand much closer to a 3 loser hand tham 4 loser hand.

[Cyberyeti]

Objectively both hands are 2♣ openers to me, but I'm happier opening the second than the first.

Bidding the first over 2♣-3♠-P/X-5♠ is my idea of hell and I might prefer at unfavourable to open 1♥ as I bet I'll get a chance over 4♠. We do also respond pretty light if partner happens to have spades, at which point I have methods to show a huge hand. At favourable, easy 2♣.

The second being one suited is an easier 2♣ for me.