[Hanoi5]

---

Is 2♥ too much?
Is Pass after the double of 2♥ a viable option?
Should West realize what's going on and bid 3♣?

[blackshoe]

Maybe. No. Probably. East clearly has the black suits. Why didn't he make a Michaels cue bid? Several possible reasons, none of them good from West's point of view.

East's hand is perfect for a top and bottom cue bid, if only they were playing that method. Opposite a top and bottom cue, West might bid 2♥, East should retreat to 3♣, and West should pass.

[ArtK78]

West bid his heart suit. That is fine. When East bids spades, West should retreat to clubs. Jx is not terrible. But rebidding QJTxxx at the 3 level opposite what appears to be a black suited hand is a recipe for disaster.

[Zelandakh]

No, no and yes. Actually I am just agreeing with Art. The East hand might be good for a Raptor 1NT overcall but not so sure about being perfect for Top&Bottom. The West hand is worth no more than one try. Rebidding 3♥ here shows a better hand in my book.

[lalldonn]

How is this the fault of not playing a convention? West was DOUBLED IN 2H AND THEN WENT TO 3H WITH JX OF HIS PARTNERS FIRST SUIT.

East should definitely pass 3HX also since his partner's jack of clubs should be the 9 of hearts for the rebid here. But maybe with this partner bidding is ok?

[ArtK78]

When I posted above, I did not realize that the 2♥ call was doubled FOR PENALTY. That makes the 3♥ call sheer insanity.

As I said, there is nothing wrong with the 2♥ call, but, in the face of black suit bidding by East, West should bid 3♣ EVEN WITHOUT THE PENALTY DOUBLE OF 2♥. To bid 3♥ after 2♥ was doubled for penalty is sheer madness.

[ahydra]

Are we sure the X of 2H is for penalty? I'd play it as takeout. I guess it doesn't matter either way since West really should bid 3C not 3H.

ahydra

[blackshoe]

lalldonn, on 2012-April-26, 08:03, said:

How is this the fault of not playing a convention? West was DOUBLED IN 2H AND THEN WENT TO 3H WITH JX OF HIS PARTNERS FIRST SUIT.

East should definitely pass 3HX also since his partner's jack of clubs should be the 9 of hearts for the rebid here. But maybe with this partner bidding is ok?

If you're referring to my mention of Top and Bottom cues, I didn't say anything about fault. All I said was the hand is perfect for it. Either way, of course West should bid 3♣ over 2♠ or 2♥X, whichever came back to him.

[ArtK78]

ahydra, on 2012-April-26, 08:27, said:

Are we sure the X of 2H is for penalty? I'd play it as takeout. I guess it doesn't matter either way since West really should bid 3C not 3H.

ahydra

I am curious. Why would you play the double of 2♥ for takeout? There is only one unbid suit. It would seem that you would either bid it (spades), rebid your own suit, bid NT, pass or double for penalties. There doesn't seem to be any reason to double for takeout here, unless you are catering to a hand with extra values, no spade suit, not enough to rebid your suit and not good enough to bid 2NT. Seems like a pretty small target.

[han]

What lalldonn said, including the caps.

[dkham]

I think North's double of 2♥ is for penalties. With that many suits already bid (including South implying majors with his double) it's got to be.

[Phil]

han, on 2012-April-26, 08:35, said:

What lalldonn said, including the caps.

Agree.

(Does an "X" denote a higher spot than an "x"?)

[neilkaz]

The 3♥ rebid here is extremely bad to put it politely. Clearly west didn't listen to any part of this auction. Failure to take a preference back to 3♣, the suit that PD made a 2 level overcall in, is sickening.

[billw55]

Agree with everyone that 3♥ is bad.

Maybe east can help though. With the possible misfit and the negative double on his left, perhaps he could put on the brakes with 3♣ instead of 2♠. Maybe not best, but possible?

[ArtK78]

billw55, on 2012-April-26, 09:44, said:

Agree with everyone that 3♥ is bad.

Maybe east can help though. With the possible misfit and the negative double on his left, perhaps he could put on the brakes with 3♣ instead of 2♠. Maybe not best, but possible?

Put the breaks on? East has a fine hand if there is a fit.

Change West's hand to Jxxx Axxxxx x Jx. Now where do you want to play it?

[lalldonn]

blackshoe, on 2012-April-26, 08:29, said:

If you're referring to my mention of Top and Bottom cues, I didn't say anything about fault. All I said was the hand is perfect for it. Either way, of course West should bid 3♣ over 2♠ or 2♥X, whichever came back to him.

I don't know why west would bid 3C if 2HX came back to him. What would be wrong with that contract if partner has decided to leave it there? Running with QJTxxx would be bizarre.

[kenrexford]

I am just not sure why this is interesting, except from a developmental sciences perspective.

[ahydra]

dkham said:

I think North's double of 2♥ is for penalties. With that many suits already bid (including South implying majors with his double) it's got to be.

Interesting question for our partnership then!

Kx xxx AKxxx KQx

1D-(2C)-X-(2H)
?

We play the negX as showing at least one major. What is one meant to do with this hand (playing weak NT)? You could fake a 2NT bid with no heart stop, I guess - but nothing else looks attractive. Hence I like to use the X here as showing a strong-NT-type hand without a stop - of course, if partner does have hearts for his X, he's welcome to pass / bid NT.

ahydra

[ArtK78]

ahydra, on 2012-April-27, 05:39, said:

Interesting question for our partnership then!

Kx xxx AKxxx KQx

1D-(2C)-X-(2H)
?

We play the negX as showing at least one major. What is one meant to do with this hand (playing weak NT)? You could fake a 2NT bid with no heart stop, I guess - but nothing else looks attractive. Hence I like to use the X here as showing a strong-NT-type hand without a stop - of course, if partner does have hearts for his X, he's welcome to pass / bid NT.

ahydra

How about pass?

You don't have spades. You don't have a 2NT call. You don't have a strong enough diamond suit to bid it again, and you don't have enough in the way of extras to force to game. So pass.

Double doesn't always mean I don't have a suitable call. Sometimes pass means that.

[ahydra]

But then, how does partner tell the difference between that hand and A xxx QJxxxx KJx? Plus, he's not going to re-open with a minimum negative X, and we let them play 2H-1 (maybe even making) when we make 3D, not good.

I reckon X is currently underused as a general competitive bid.

ahydra