[plaur]

---

2♦: 10+, 4+♦
2♥: 15-17 HCP unbalanced (playing 12-14 NT)
2♠: ask
3♥: short ♥
4♦: bid and understood as slam invitation
5♦: partner denied a ♣ cue
System after 3♥ is cuebids and 4NT as RKCB 1430

Should 4♦ deny a club control?
Explanations as to why or why not much appreciated!

[mgoetze]

Well there is no question really as to which denomination you are playing once you go past 3NT, so 4♣ would unambiguously be a club cuebid in support of diamonds. Given that, bypassing it should deny a club cue, yes.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

If 4NT is RKC, then the 4D bid here denies a Club control.
Better if you used 4D = Minorwood-RKC here since agreement was BELOW the 4-level .
( If Agreement first occurs AT the 4-level, then 4H! would be RKC [ kickback ] ).

There also is the issue of a ♠-Ctrl when bidding mixed cuebids up-the-line .
4D ( over 3H ) in your auction would not only deny a ♣-Ctrl but also deny a ♠-Ctrl since the 2S bid was an artificial-ask.... so 3S would be the cheapest cuebid.

Using your system ( where 4NT = RKC )
1D - 2D
2H! ( 12-14, unbalanced ) - 2S!( ask )
3H!(shortness) - 3S ( cue )
4D ( denies Cl-Ctrl ) - 4NT ( RKC )
5C ( 0/3 ) - 6D ( no need to ask further of the 12-14 hcp hand )

[Statto]

plaur, on 2012-March-25, 10:21, said:

System after 3♥ is cuebids and 4NT as RKCB 1430

North should cue bid 4♣ then. 4♦ seems to deny 1st round control in both black suits. Playing Italian cues, 3♠.

[bd71]

I'm not sure what the other options were in your system, but while "15-17 hcp unbalanced" is technically accurate in describing South's hand, it seems like it may dramatically undersell the playing strength.

[Cyberyeti]

If you're playing this complicated system over 1m-2m (I presume 2♦ denies a 4 card major otherwise you have other problems) you really should have agreed kickback as well.

I'd like to know what the other available bids are over 1♦-2♦ as 15-17 is not an adequate description of this 7 playing trick hand.

The problem with the system you're playing is that you don't show whether the S hand is 3163 in which case the slam is very poor or you have a 4 card black suit where it's excellent.

You will also miss the excellent grand opposite Kx, Axx, 97xx, AKxx.

4♦ to me would be not truly minimum in the context of facing a stiff heart(3N or 5♦) so still slam interested, but unwilling to cue at this point. He's virtually certain to hold a black suit cue of some sort here if non minimum or so many heart honours he just bids 4♥ over 3♥, so while normally it should deny, not sure it does here although wouldn't be my choice of bid.

If N proceeds with 3♠(K), south's response depends on methods, there are several meanings for 3N and what you use 3N for governs what should happen next. If you play serious 3N for example, it proceeds 3N-4♣-4♦-4♥-4♠-5♣ and now S can picture ♠K, ♥A (you don't cue K opposite a known stiff), ♣AK, the best bet is to bid 5♠ (bid 7 with the Q) unless you have a more sophisticated method to find Kx.

[rmnka447]

You state that after the 3 ♥ bid, cues or 1430 apply. The 4 ♦ bid really doesn't do anything to help the partnership understand if slam exists. Looking at the ♣ AK, you can hardly expect partner to be very enthusiastic about it -- especially when he's shown ♥ shortness and is very likely to hold at least 2 ♣s.

You hold controls in all the outside suits, but the slam really depends on what cards partner holds. So you ought to strive to tell partner as much about your hand by cue bidding.

If you play that a control bid can show either A or K, start the process by bidding 3 ♠.

One thing you might want to discuss with partner is that when you are cue bidding that 3 NT, if available, can be used as a waiting bid conserving bidding space.

Without it, partner ought to bid 4 ♦ denying a ♣ control. Then you can cue 4 ♥, partner can cue 4♠, and you can cue 5 ♣. Partner can now reasonably bid slam knowing you hold something additional. You wouldn't start exploring for slam with just K ♠, A ♣, and A ♥.

If you can use 3 NT as a waiting, then the cueing goes 3 ♠ - 3 NT (waiting)- 4 ♣ - 4 ♦ - 4 ♥ - 4 ♠ - 5 ♣. At this point, partner can see only one possible loser in the hand a ♠. Partner can then cue 5 ♥ which allows you to show the third round ♠ control if you hold ♠ KQ or ♠ Kx.

If you play more disciplined cueing (Aces first), then the cueing after 3 ♥ might go 4 ♣ - 4 ♦ - 4 ♥ - 4 ♠ - 5 ♣. Partner can now give 6 ♦ a try.

[mgoetze]

rmnka447, on 2012-March-26, 12:05, said:

If you play more disciplined cueing (Aces first),

I wouldn't characterize this style as "more disciplined", just as "anachronistic".

[mike777]

plaur, on 2012-March-25, 10:21, said:

---

2♦: 10+, 4+♦
2♥: 15-17 HCP unbalanced (playing 12-14 NT)
2♠: ask
3♥: short ♥
4♦: bid and understood as slam invitation
5♦: partner denied a ♣ cue
System after 3♥ is cuebids and 4NT as RKCB 1430

Should 4♦ deny a club control?
Explanations as to why or why not much appreciated!

what the hell is 2h? random 15 bid?

If so you dont say so

I really hate..hate these non explantions

after that
4d must be slam try......why only 5d silly

4d msut be a huge hand on this given auction ......5d is horrible


fwiw seems easy 4h rkc in d by north yet again.

n has huge hand

[Zelandakh]

plaur, on 2012-March-25, 10:21, said:

System after 3♥ is cuebids and 4NT as RKCB 1430

Given this, what is wrong with a 3♠ bid. Is this really the agreed system or is it only South's view?

plaur, on 2012-March-25, 10:21, said:

Should 4♦ deny a club control?
Explanations as to why or why not much appreciated!

If the agreed system is cues then yes. On the other hand it is possible to assign 4♦ to be a general slam try or as RKCB.

But look at the South hand! Can partner really be making a slam try here with nothing in spades, diamonds and clubs? Even after hearing about heart shortage? This makes no sense whatsoever. So it is clear that partner either means 4♦ as RKCB (if Minorwood is in the agreements) or as a general slam try (perhaps focusing on trump quality) if not. It is hard to see how South could be more suitable! In fact the South hand is so good it should probably make a grand slam try over partner's 4♦. 5♦ is simply unbelievably bad, essentially saying: "I do not trust you, partner".

A question to ask South (perhaps the OP?): What hand are you playing partner for to make a slam try after 3♥ without any black suit control?