[jillybean]

---

How do I respond ?

[wank]

3♠. no bergen or similar crap in acol

[jillybean]

Ah, natural What would I bid with a gf M raise?

[Vampyr]

 jillybean, on 2012-March-18, 22:31, said:

Ah, natural What would I bid with a gf M raise?

If you didn't have an immediate GF available, typically 2NT or 3NT, you have to start with 2♣. Not ideal; this is why people often play artificial GF raises.

[nigel_k]

Where I live, lots of people play that 2NT is a limit raise or better and I think that is pretty common throughout NZ.

[wank]

there's a thing called a delayed game raise whereby you bid your own suit (or closest approximation to a suit if you haven't been dealt one) before jumping to 4M.

anyone vaguely competent will know jacoby though, acol or no acol.

[jillybean]

Thanks, one last question. I don't have a preemptive raise to 3M so I assume I pass and bid 3M next round,
if I can?

[Flameous]

Or bid 2M now.

[gordontd]

 Flameous, on 2012-March-19, 02:00, said:

Or bid 2M now.

Yes, better to support now unless the hand is really bad. In any case, since partner might only have four of them, most hands that look to a 5cM-player like a pre-emptive raise are really only worth a simple raise in 4cM.

[Cyberyeti]

 nigel_k, on 2012-March-18, 22:41, said:

Where I live, lots of people play that 2NT is a limit raise or better and I think that is pretty common throughout NZ.

It's fairly common in the UK too.

[the hog]

Where I used to live this structure was common:

1M 2NT = 11/12 raise or 17+ raise or 14-16 splinter
1M 3M = 15/16 bal raise
1M double jump = 10-13 or 17+ splinter
1M 3NT = 12-14 raise

[Zelandakh]

With the original hand: 3♠. With a GF raise it depends on other agreements. Most serious Acolites these days play 1M - 2NT as a good raise. Those that do not typically use 1M - 3NT as a "pudding raise" showing minimum game values and no shortage; this one is officially a part of Standard English. A (very) few still play some form of Swiss - in the very first version of Acol I learned, for example, 1M - 4♦ was defined as a game-forcing raise. Finally, the traditional method that Acol used to cope with this hand type was the "delayed game raise". The auction 1M - new suit; any - 4M is used to show a game-forcing raise and may contain 4 card support. Without any agreements I would use this last path as it is valid in any version of Acol. Usually this should be one of the areas you discuss with a partner early on.

[Vampyr]

 jillybean, on 2012-March-19, 01:44, said:

Thanks, one last question. I don't have a preemptive raise to 3M so I assume I pass and bid 3M next round,
if I can?

You can't bid 3M if you have already put down the dummy. Normally you owe partner a response if you have 6 or more points.

[gordontd]

 Vampyr, on 2012-March-19, 11:14, said:

You can't bid 3M if you have already put down the dummy.

She knows that. That's why she said "if I can".

[mr1303]

I do think that all of these Jacoby 2NT etc responses are pitched rather high for the novice forum. And comments such as "Anyone vaguely competent will know Jacoby 2NT" don't really help novices etc with their confidence, apart from anything else.

When I'm teaching term 1, I teach that the OP hand is a raise to 3. If the hand is slightly stronger, then the hand is a raise to 4S. Delayed game raises or Jacoby 2NT etc are definitely 2nd year material.

[Flameous]

Quote

When I'm teaching term 1, I teach that the OP hand is a raise to 3. If the hand is slightly stronger, then the hand is a raise to 4S. Delayed game raises or Jacoby 2NT etc are definitely 2nd year material.

This was one of the matters that annoyed me most when trying to teach. Pupils wanted to bid slams and ask for aces and all that "cool" stuff. I tried to fix hands enough that they'd never have chance to try for anything like that.

[EricK]

 Flameous, on 2012-March-19, 15:47, said:

This was one of the matters that annoyed me most when trying to teach. Pupils wanted to bid slams and ask for aces and all that "cool" stuff. I tried to fix hands enough that they'd never have chance to try for anything like that.

Playing Acol with a beginner last night I raised 1♥ to 4♥ on ♠Kxx ♥KTxxx ♦AKx ♣XX. Making 5, thank you partner.

Later I raised 1♠ to 4♠ on ♠8xxx ♥KTxx ♦Kxxx ♣A. Making 4, thanks again partner.

Slams are pretty rare, really, and there is a lot to be said for not complicating matters and just bidding game - especially if declarer is not yet at a level to play close slams correctly.

[gordontd]

 Flameous, on 2012-March-19, 15:47, said:

This was one of the matters that annoyed me most when trying to teach. Pupils wanted to bid slams and ask for aces and all that "cool" stuff. I tried to fix hands enough that they'd never have chance to try for anything like that.

I think it's the slams & cool stuff that capture the imaginations of new players - whether or not they get them right.

[P_Marlowe]

 Flameous, on 2012-March-19, 02:00, said:

Or bid 2M now.

Or 4M.

[phil_20686]

 P_Marlowe, on 2012-March-20, 10:08, said:

Or 4M.

That was my thought too.

Partner opening 1M at acol always has one of two things (ignoring 4441): A five card heart suit in an unbalanced hand, or a strong nt. If you want to be in game opposite both of those things you should bid game. If I give partner a quite ordinary 5422: Axxxx xx Axxx Kx say, I seem to have a pretty good game. (needs only 2-2 spades). Thus, if you do not open light, you should raise to game with this hand.

Regardless, when you bid 3M, you should have an agreement about which minimum hands raise. When playing a limit raise in 5cM its normal to raise on basically any 5431 hand, as they play so much better than 5332, but in acol partner will never be 5332 unless 15-17, so the limit raise should be a bit weaker, and you need a bit more to raise, compared with a strong and five system.