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Open in 4th? or throw it in?

Poll: Open in 4th? (26 member(s) have cast votes)

Would you open this hand in 4th chair?

  1. No, doesn't come close to meeting the "Rule of 15" (6 votes [23.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.08%

  2. Heck yeah, I paid my entry fee, I didn't come to throw in interesting hands (20 votes [76.92%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 76.92%

If yes, what's your opening bid?

  1. 1C (4 votes [15.38%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

  2. 3C (15 votes [57.69%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 57.69%

  3. something else (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. irrelevant, I passed it out (7 votes [26.92%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 26.92%

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#1 User is offline   daveharty 

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Posted 2011-August-19, 07:49



EDIT: Matchpoints.
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#2 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-August-19, 07:51

I play 3m openings in 4th seat as 12-14 with a good 6+ card suit. This hand is worth a 3♣ opening imo.
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#3 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-August-19, 07:53

3♣ for me. This should be in range for most agreements.

I like the rule that I heard from dburn which says that you should always open in 4th because your 3rd hand opp would have opened if it was their hand, but of course I don't follow it blindly, in particular some RHO's would never even consider opening on the 1 level with less than 12 hcp's, even in 3rd seat.
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#4 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2011-August-19, 07:56

The pass is riskier at IMPs as you may have a makeable 3NT
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#5 User is offline   daveharty 

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Posted 2011-August-19, 08:14

View Postpooltuna, on 2011-August-19, 07:56, said:

The pass is riskier at IMPs as you may have a makeable 3NT

Yeah sorry, should've said it's matchpoints.
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#6 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2011-August-19, 08:44

View PostFree, on 2011-August-19, 07:51, said:

I play 3m openings in 4th seat as 12-14 with a good 6+ card suit. This hand is worth a 3♣ opening imo.


Me too. I learned the rule of 15 as yada, yada OR if you are prepared to bid to the 3 level. I think that additional bit came from Marty Bergen.
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#7 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-August-19, 08:50

Looks like a book 3♣ opener to me. I rate to make it opposite a random 9 count, and the right hand gives us 3N. By the way, I hope we play that a new suit by partner is a stopper, and not natural.
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#8 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-August-20, 00:04

I think it is obvious to open 3♣ at 4th seat if we decide to open. I would open 1♣ at 1st or 2nd seat.
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#9 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-August-20, 14:58

Depends. If you open 1st/2nd seat on trash, pass. Else it's a textbook 3♣ opening.
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#10 User is offline   daveharty 

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Posted 2011-August-20, 16:38

View PostMrAce, on 2011-August-20, 00:04, said:

I think it is obvious to open 3♣ at 4th seat if we decide to open. I would open 1♣ at 1st or 2nd seat.

Agreed, I think the second part of the question is pretty obvious. It looks like most people think the first part is pretty obvious too. :D
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#11 User is online   mike777 

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Posted 2011-August-20, 16:48

I will risk pass.

At this vul pard wont have ten highs and 4s unless 4333.

good problem cant wait to see the full deal.
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#12 User is offline   Siegmund 

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Posted 2011-August-20, 19:33

I voted pass.
I play my 4th seat jumps heavier than a lot of forum posters do - I aim to be within 1 trick of my bid, usually - so for me this hand is between a half-trick and full trick shy of a 3C opening. If my long suit were anything else I'd open 2 of it.

3C is an understandable option.
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#13 User is offline   BunnyGo 

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Posted 2011-August-20, 20:20

There's something too nice about this hand to pass. I have offensive potential, and I think I'm more likely to go plus than minus. If the opponents compete, then I have defensive tricks and partner is likely to have some spades/diamond controls for a trick or two (at least).

If we were red vs. white, then I'd definitely bid because I expect partner to have the best hand at the table. If we were white vs. red, then I might give more thought to passing as partner may not have as much for me.
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#14 User is offline   jdeegan 

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Posted 2011-August-21, 01:41

:P 3♣ or pass depending on the table vibe and the state of our game. It is a close decision. Visualize 10 HCP hands opposite your holding, where pard can't have a weak 2♠ opener. Spades are likely 4-4-4-1 or 5-4-3-1 around the table. The issue is whether 3 ♣ will make or go down.
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#15 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2011-August-21, 01:48

Pass is horrible, how can we rate to go minus on the hand?
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#16 User is offline   daveharty 

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Posted 2011-August-21, 08:33

The full hand:



The openers are definitely right on this one. I doubt partner would bid the cold 3NT opposite 3C, but EW are certainly in line for a plus score.

I passed, a decision I now think is mildly irrational. At the table I was swayed by the spade shortage.
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#17 User is online   mike777 

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Posted 2011-August-21, 13:25

View Postdaveharty, on 2011-August-21, 08:33, said:

The full hand:



The openers are definitely right on this one. I doubt partner would bid the cold 3NT opposite 3C, but EW are certainly in line for a plus score.

I passed, a decision I now think is mildly irrational. At the table I was swayed by the spade shortage.



Actually this is a matter of style...for me pard cannot pass andhold the west hand.....as I said before pard cannot have ten hcp and 4spades and pass at this vul.

I mean there is a reason to play the rule of 15 if pard cannot hold these hands and not to play that rule if pard will pass these hands :)

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actually I open the south hand also
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#18 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2011-August-22, 03:50

If I open, I open 3C.

Most likely I would open.

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#19 User is offline   farrnbach 

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Posted 2011-August-22, 04:20

on 4th seat, I pass, as I cannot really win, as p cannot have the hand he shows

If I MUST open the hand, I would open 3♣, but probably I exchange a "0" to a -50/100
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#20 User is offline   VM1973 

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Posted 2011-August-22, 07:54

Well the West hand, while technically an opening bid, really is quite ugly. It would be much nicer if the ♥AQ were in spades. The South hand is definitely not an opening bid. I was one of the 3 people that voted for a 1♣ opener with East as I consider it to be too strong for a 3♣ opening. I had planned to rebid 3♣ over the (anticipated) 1♠ call but I was again wondering what I should do if partner responded 1♥ as you do have nice heart support, but partner might be just bidding up with line on ♥9xxx
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