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2nd seat in Poznan Open teams R16 board 23

Poll: 2nd seat in Poznan (39 member(s) have cast votes)

Your call?

  1. Pass (24 votes [61.54%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 61.54%

  2. Double (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. 1H (15 votes [38.46%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 38.46%

  4. Other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#21 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2011-June-29, 03:26

View Postmgoetze, on 2011-June-27, 11:25, said:

On vugraph, one expert commented, "seems like clear action, 1 or even double." Another claimed, "the majority of experts would pass."

Who were the experts?
Gordon Rainsford
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#22 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-June-29, 03:50

View Postnige1, on 2011-June-29, 03:13, said:

2

Posted Image
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#23 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2011-June-29, 11:00

I honestly cannot imagine passing. AM very surprised by the poll. However most of the best players on the forum don't seem to have voted, where is jlall, hanp, mfa etc?
The physics is theoretical, but the fun is real. - Sheldon Cooper
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#24 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2011-June-29, 14:49

View Postgordontd, on 2011-June-29, 03:26, said:

Who were the experts?


"Clear action" was Walter Johnson, "majority pass" was Glen Ashton.
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
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#25 User is offline   WGF_Flame 

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Posted 2011-June-30, 01:43

I think it depend on the vul, I would pass for sure if I'm vul, but if not vul, I am close to bidding (give me the 98 of heart and i'd bid 1H with confident)
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#26 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2011-June-30, 01:46

The old school bridge players like to have a good suit or a good hand. I am happy to just have either a reasonable suit or a reasonable hand, but here I don't have either, so I would just pass.
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#27 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2011-June-30, 01:54

View Postrogerclee, on 2011-June-30, 01:46, said:

The old school bridge players like to have a good suit or a good hand. I am happy to just have either a reasonable suit or a reasonable hand, but here I don't have either, so I would just pass.


What's your criterium for a reasonable suit?

On Vugraph, Roland Wald commented that this was not an overcall for Auken-Christiansen because they only did it on a suit which "could stand a lead from Kx". I thought that sounded like a useful rule.
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
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#28 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2011-June-30, 02:38

View Postphil_20686, on 2011-June-29, 11:00, said:

I honestly cannot imagine passing. AM very surprised by the poll. However most of the best players on the forum don't seem to have voted, where is jlall, hanp, mfa etc?

Aren't two of those the same person?
Gordon Rainsford
London UK
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#29 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2011-June-30, 04:09

Despite it's rotten suit I think this hand has much more going for it than the hand I posted here:

http://www.bridgebas...6632-overcall/.

I see for example that Adam overcalled 1H there but not here. I don't agree Adam. Is our main priority to ask for a heart lead? Or is our main priority competing for a good partscore or game? I think the latter is more important, so this hand is better than the defensive 5332 hand I posted. For example, if I overcall 1H here and partner makes a mixed raise to the 3-level, I'd be happy I overcalled. But if I had Qx AJxxx Qxx xxx we'd be almost certain to get -200 at least.

I'm not saying suit quality is not important, of course it is. But in a competitive auction, shape is trump. Our side suits have so much more potential here, and a singleton in RHO's suit is of course much better than three small, which is a horrible holding.

By the way Phil, I'm flattered you think I belong in a list with jlall and mfa but unfortunately I don't. But some day! ;)
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#30 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2011-June-30, 04:30

View Posthan, on 2011-June-30, 04:09, said:

By the way Phil, I'm flattered you think I belong in a list with jlall and mfa but unfortunately I don't. But some day! ;)


Sadly, I was only putting you in the less restrictive subset of "players to appear to be significantly better than I/the majority of forum posters". :)
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#31 User is offline   hotShot 

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Posted 2011-June-30, 04:52

View Posthan, on 2011-June-30, 04:09, said:

Is our main priority to ask for a heart lead? Or is our main priority competing for a good partscore or game? I think the latter is more important, so this hand is better than the defensive 5332 hand I posted. For example, if I overcall 1H here and partner makes a mixed raise to the 3-level, I'd be happy I overcalled. But if I had Qx AJxxx Qxx xxx we'd be almost certain to get -200 at least.


I think this is an important point and I would like to add, that since we pretty well know of at least 21 HCP in our and openers hand, it is almost sure that partner will face a difficult decision once LHO bids 1 or 1NT. If we bid with this hand and don't bit with "Qx AJxxx Qxx xxx" partner is in a much better position to make his decision.
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#32 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2011-June-30, 10:57

View Posthan, on 2011-June-30, 04:09, said:

By the way Phil, I'm flattered you think I belong in a list with jlall and mfa but unfortunately I don't. But some day! ;)

Didn't he say hanp, not han?
Gordon Rainsford
London UK
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#33 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2011-June-30, 11:07

View Postgordontd, on 2011-June-30, 10:57, said:

Didn't he say hanp, not han?


yes, but I meant han :P
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#34 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2011-June-30, 11:11

View Postphil_20686, on 2011-June-30, 11:07, said:

yes, but I meant han :P

Looks like a fielded misbid to me :D
Gordon Rainsford
London UK
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#35 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2011-June-30, 14:15

View Postgordontd, on 2011-June-30, 11:11, said:

Looks like a fielded misbid to me :D

Director, he's psyched a Dutchman, is that legal ?
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#36 User is offline   mfa1010 

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Posted 2011-July-02, 12:19

1 for me. But Sam Lev passed against us in R16 and I don't mind passing. I sat north and declared 2 after 1-1-2. The defense started with two club tricks and heart through and heart to my queen. I went one off when I continued low spade to the queen. I suppose I could have made 2 by taking a deep diamond finesse immediately, but that seems double dummy'ish, and it comforts me that Meckstroth/Rodwell played the same way as me in open room (and therefore also went one off in 2).
Michael Askgaard
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#37 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2011-July-02, 14:40

I would bid obv. I have a good hand opposite a fit anywhere, and I rate to have a fit somewhere. A 5-3 heart fit might not be great but a 5-4 heart fit certainly would be. Lead value is overrated, why do we assume partner will be on lead, and why do we assume he will always lead a heart and that it will always be bad? Sure some of the time partner will end up on lead AND will lead a heart AND his normal lead would have been better, but that is such a small concern on a competitive auction where we are not sure whos hand it is yet, our primary goal is to find fits and compete for the contract if we are capable of doing so. This hand offers a lot of potential in that regard.

Yes, I'm only making the case for bidding as others have made the case for passing, but I definitely think it's necessary to get involved with a hand like this.

That said, I agree with the commentator who guessed that a majority of experts would pass, so take my opinion fwiw.

Quote

Looks like a fielded misbid to me :D


Aren't you allowed to use the logic of the auction (conversation) to field things if they don't make sense? I mean, I have made maybe 2 posts life time as hanp, whereas han has made like 10,000, why would he be talking about my joke account rather than hans real account?
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#38 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-July-03, 14:16

yuck.. I pass and I'm quite an aggressive overcaller. The ODR is just too low.
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#39 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2011-July-03, 14:37

View Postnige1, on 2011-June-29, 03:13, said:

  • Does it jam opponents' auction? No



If I am considering overcalling on this hand i am not thinking of the immediate preemptive affect of 1 but the possibility of partner being able to raise to 2 or 3 (preemptively).

For me the hand is close to the border for 1. I think i would probably bid.
Wayne Burrows

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#40 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-July-03, 15:07

I used to pass these hands because it was too dangerous to bid, then at partner's turn he would pass because he had a balanced 11-count, then when it got back to me in 1NT or 2 it would still be too dangerous, and then we'd lose 5 IMPs.

Nowadays I overcall (but I quite like double).
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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