[rduran1216]

look i realize 1S is wrong. Seriously, you guys wonder why bridge is dying, when 75% of the good players are stuck up assholes all the time. And lets not get into "nobody would bid 1S, why is this in this forum, duh lolz, idiot, etc." I realize its a bad bid, it didn't take long after partner bid 3H that I knew I'd backed myself into a corner. I'm trying to decide between 7C and 6NT and how to navigate there.

How about after

1H 2C
3H ?

[dake50]

Not starting with 2C over 1H makes this mess unsortable.
Reduced to 'by guess, by golly',
unless BIT clarifies: slow C-bid only 4-suit;
quick C-bid good 5+clubs.
I hate to say too many players do just that way.
Note: I did not say BRIDGE players.

[Phil]

If you post this in the A/E section and the auction starts, 1♥ - 1♠, then I'm sorry, but you are going to get these types of comments.

[Phil]

rduran1216, on 2011-January-13, 11:35, said:

75% of the good players are stuck up assholes all the time.

I wish the % was this low

[TWO4BRIDGE]

rduran1216, on 2011-January-13, 11:35, said:

How about after
1H 2C
3H ?

The 3H-jump rebid after a 2/1 GF sets Hts as trumps and demands cheapest ( mixed ) cuebids.

Is your Ht suit long enough and near solid to do that ?

If not, a 2H rebid would suffice, showing extra length, but says nothing about "extras".
This way you have enough room to show your 5s/6c at the 3-level ( via whereagles bidding, post #14 ).

[Phil]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-January-13, 13:31, said:

The 3H-jump rebid after a 2/1 GF sets Hts as trumps

The OP is playing SAYC, not 2/1.

[matmat]

Phil, on 2011-January-13, 13:11, said:

If you post this in the A/E section and the auction starts, 1♥ - 1♠, then I'm sorry, but you are going to get these types of comments.

Agree with Phil here, if you post a problem no sober advanced/expert player would face you should expect to catch a lot of crap for it.

[jillybean]

matmat, on 2011-January-13, 15:04, said:

Agree with Phil here, if you post a problem no sober advanced/expert player would face you should expect to catch a lot of crap for it.

I would go as far to say all but the most inebriated or over rated intermediate wouldn't face this problem either.
It's easier to take your lumps quietly and post your problems in the correct forum rather than try to fight a losing battle here.

[MrAce]

jillybean, on 2011-January-13, 15:16, said:

I would go as far to say all but the most inebriated or over rated intermediate wouldn't face this problem either.
It's easier to take your lumps quietly and post your problems in the correct forum rather than try to fight a losing battle here.

I have to disagree, in fact i believe that 1♠ obvious mistake looks very innocent to me compared to some replies/suggestions and analysis in A/E forums. I know it is fashion here to point fingers and boo as if someone farted hard in the church on sunday, after a post like that.

But i think an intermediate, who is not satisfied by another intermediate's answer or suggestion, should be able to come here and ask expert's opinions to settle his argument or to learn from experts. What does it cost us if they do that ? You click ur left mouse button and when see the topic is not for you, u click mouse 1 more time and u are out of it, simple as is. It really doesnt worth to discourage people like that. Unless it makes people feel more expert/adv when they do that.

The sad part is, to see some really friendly and leveled people, following this tradition.

[mtvesuvius]

The problem is that everyone would have bid 2♣ the first time, so this question/problem is irrelevant. All the responses here are fancy ways of saying they would never bid 1♠. The B/I forum is the place to ask something like this, and (almost) all the "experts" read the B/I forum anyway. By posting in the A/E forum, the problem should be something that most people would encounter after reasonable bidding. If something like this was posted in the B/I forum, I am sure that instead of everyone saying what an bad bid 1♠ was, they would explain why, and give a somewhat helpful response on how to get out of this problem now... If there is a way. If I had bid 1♠ I'd just punt something depending on how the day has gone so far, probably 6N.

I agree that there are plenty of worse posts/analyses, and people post stupid stuff from time to time (myself included)... The point is to recognize it, move on, and not insist it isn't a silly problem.

[MrAce]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-January-13, 20:54, said:

The problem is that everyone would have bid 2♣ the first time, so this question/problem is irrelevant. All the responses here are fancy ways of saying they would never bid 1♠. The B/I forum is the place to ask something like this, and (almost) all the "experts" read the B/I forum anyway. By posting in the A/E forum, the problem should be something that most people would encounter after reasonable bidding. If something like this was posted in the B/I forum, I am sure that instead of everyone saying what an idiotic and stupid bid 1♠ was, they would explain why, and give a somewhat helpful response on how to get out of this problem now... If there is a way. If I had bid 1♠ I'd just punt something depending on how the day has gone so far, probably 6N.

I agree that there are plenty of worse posts/analyses, and people post stupid stuff from time to time (myself included)... The point is to recognize it, move on, and not insist it isn't a silly problem.

The problem is if u are an intermediate player, and want to learn what experts think, u do not expect experts to come to B/I forums and answer ur question. And even if they do, as an intermediate player, you would not know who was an expert or advanced or beginner among repliers. I am well aware that there are top experts who goes there and try to help them like Justin, you and others. And i think u guys are doing good job. But this still is not a free pass to ridicule people here for a question. As i said it takes only 2 mouse click time from our life to get in and out of the topic. And i believe the best way to avoid non A/E topics here is to simply not reply if we believe it is not belong to here and leave the rest of the job to forum admins. Anyway...maybe i am wrong but thats just my opinion.

[matmat]

MrAce, on 2011-January-13, 21:02, said:

The problem is if u are an intermediate player, and want to learn what experts think, u do not expect experts to come to B/I forums and answer ur question.

let's take a look at the description of the B/I forum, shall we?

Quote

Beginner and Intermediate Bridge Discussion

For our novice to intermediate members to discuss issues and share advice (and for more skilled players to answer questions .

(emphasis mine)

MrAce said:

But this still is not a free pass to ridicule people here for a question. As i said it takes only 2 mouse click time from our life to get in and out of the topic. And i believe the best way to avoid non A/E topics here is to simply not reply if we believe it is not belong to here and leave the rest of the job to forum admins. Anyway...maybe i am wrong but thats just my opinion.

few points here.
first of all, it's 2 mouse-clicks times a bunch, since there are more and more of these posts.
Secondly, some of the hand diagrams really take quite a bit to load up, so there goes more time.
Thirdly, if someone posts here once, or twice, and the post is out of place, that's fine (i might have done this at some point, who knows). Certain members, however, just keep mis-posting their problems in the A/E forum despite being made aware of the issue.

Lastly, I know of several excellent players who have either quit the forums, or expressed concerns and doubt about continued participation, because they do not feel they get much out of them. This is mostly because the forum that they find the most useful is being diluted, and they do not find rewarding having to be a remedial tutor to people with inflated self-assessment of bridge ability.

[jillybean]

Maybe I have developed thick skin after too many years in this forum, but I don’t see any ridicule in the initial responses to the question. It isn’t until the OP continues to justify his 1♠ bid and then goes on to say things such as “Seriously, you guys wonder why bridge is dying, when 75% of the good players are stuck up assholes all the time.” do things get testy.

As far the suggestion that a post needs to be made in the A/E forum to attract A/E responses, that is not true. The experts post answers regardless of where the question was asked. And being able to identify the experts by which forum they post in? People of any ability can and do, post in any section of the forum. Unfortunately we have our share of self rated experts and it’s only by experience that you get to know who the true experts are.

[cherdano]

MrAce, on 2011-January-13, 21:02, said:

The problem is if u are an intermediate player, and want to learn what experts think, u do not expect experts to come to B/I forums and answer ur question. And even if they do, as an intermediate player, you would not know who was an expert or advanced or beginner among repliers.

If you post in the A/E forum, you also won't know who are the advanced or expert players among those who replied.

[rduran1216]

jillybean, on 2011-January-14, 01:22, said:

Maybe I have developed thick skin after too many years in this forum, but I don’t see any ridicule in the initial responses to the question. It isn’t until the OP continues to justify his 1♠ bid and then goes on to say things such as “Seriously, you guys wonder why bridge is dying, when 75% of the good players are stuck up assholes all the time.” do things get testy.

As far the suggestion that a post needs to be made in the A/E forum to attract A/E responses, that is not true. The experts post answers regardless of where the question was asked. And being able to identify the experts by which forum they post in? People of any ability can and do, post in any section of the forum. Unfortunately we have our share of self rated experts and it’s only by experience that you get to know who the true experts are.

If you genuinely believe that first paragraph, you have very poor reading comprehension and like most nerds can't see subtleties in language and read people's intent from word choice. This is no different than how things work offline. There are great players I would never take a problem to because of their superiority complexes regarding how they play. About the only person I've taken problems to that I don't mind his responses no matter how condescending is Steve Sturm, but thats cause he's a riot and a nice guy.

Point is, it is possible to answer a question you think is obvious without being a jackass. Essentially everyone in this thread had the same response, but there's a difference between 2C is better than 1S, and "1S is ridiculous"

I know decency is hard, especially amongst people who have so many friends in real life that they spend their time online talking trash, but its a fine line.

And I realize I'm guilty of exactly what I'm echoing with that last part, it is my nature to be confrontational after an initial slight.

[matmat]

rduran1216, on 2011-January-14, 12:11, said:

If you genuinely believe that first paragraph, you have very poor reading comprehension and like most nerds can't see subtleties in language and read people's intent from word choice. This is no different than how things work offline. There are great players I would never take a problem to because of their superiority complexes regarding how they play. About the only person I've taken problems to that I don't mind his responses no matter how condescending is Steve Sturm, but thats cause he's a riot and a nice guy.

Point is, it is possible to answer a question you think is obvious without being a jackass. Essentially everyone in this thread had the same response, but there's a difference between 2C is better than 1S, and "1S is ridiculous"

I know decency is hard, especially amongst people who have so many friends in real life that they spend their time online talking trash, but its a fine line.

And I realize I'm guilty of exactly what I'm echoing with that last part, it is my nature to be confrontational after an initial slight.

LOL

yeah, sure, the subtext is there. That's because people are a little tired of:
- your posting problems that not many (if any at all) of the others would face since they would have chosen much more standard and/or descriptive and/or percentage actions at a previous opportunity.
- trying to justify your position when there is little, if any, reason to believe that it is right (edit -- basically trying to prove to others that they are incorrect)
- resorting to personal attacks when people tell you that you are wrong.

this is not the first thread you've done this in.

--- edit --

rduran1216 said:

75% of the good players are stuck up assholes all the time.

by-the-by, the percentage isn't much different for not-so-good players, either.

[Cyberyeti]

rduran1216, on 2011-January-14, 12:11, said:

If you genuinely believe that first paragraph, you have very poor reading comprehension and like most nerds can't see subtleties in language and read people's intent from word choice. This is no different than how things work offline. There are great players I would never take a problem to because of their superiority complexes regarding how they play. About the only person I've taken problems to that I don't mind his responses no matter how condescending is Steve Sturm, but thats cause he's a riot and a nice guy.

Point is, it is possible to answer a question you think is obvious without being a jackass. Essentially everyone in this thread had the same response, but there's a difference between 2C is better than 1S, and "1S is ridiculous"

I know decency is hard, especially amongst people who have so many friends in real life that they spend their time online talking trash, but its a fine line.

And I realize I'm guilty of exactly what I'm echoing with that last part, it is my nature to be confrontational after an initial slight.

There are ways of asking the question that might have got you a sensible answer, eg take a different example:

I opened a 15-17 no trump on this 21 count and partner basically indicated he wanted to play 4♥, should I bid again ? Lots of derision

I opened this 17 count 1N, partner put me in 4♥ then I found an ace. Might get you an answer.

If you'd indicated just how ridiculous you realise this 1♠ was (by saying for example you discovered a club in your spades after partner bid 3♥), people might have spent more time answering the question and less time giving you abuse.

It does happen, I opened 1N, partner transferred by bidding 2♥, and at that point I realised I held 4 clubs, 3 hearts, 2 diamonds and 4 clubs.

[Free]

rduran1216, on 2011-January-13, 00:24, said:

The catch is you're playing standard american

Apparently I'm not, because in pretty much everything standard this is a 2♣ response.

[xxhong]

There is a very basic idea of bridge bidding:
usually bid your longest suit first then shorter suits later if that bid doesn't overstate your strength or length.
Now you are asking "what can I do if I throw a needle into the ocean and want to get it back?".

rduran1216, on 2011-January-13, 00:24, said:

The catch is you're playing standard american

---

1) Do you agree with 1S in a standard american context?

2) What now?

[rduran1216]

if you believe the 1S bid is akin to opening 1NT on 21 then thats fine.

However, you could also acknowledge that after 1H 2C 2D 2S 3NT

I face the choice of showing 6-5 or possibly missing the 6-5 spot by bidding 4C to show such a big hand, and if I choose to bid 4C, partner will never think I have 5 spades since I only 4th suited. If you believe this is the kind of problem that a beginner would be concerned about with their first bid, then so be it.

But as it is, I realized after 3H it was a bad bid, and if the answer is I have to guess now then thats fine.