[gwnn]

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear: I didn't name that thread to ask you about the decision, I was talking about opps bidding 4♠ over 4♥. I quoted jlall mostly to illustrate that the better the opps, the looser they become in bidding 4♠ over 4♥. But OK, going into details:

In the first auction opener already bid 1♠ telling partner of 5 spades yet many experts would routinely bid 4♠ over 4♥ with pretty much every 6-4 they have (and was worth opening). Note that if the 1NT contains 3 cards in a limit raise he would definitely bid 4♠ over 4♥ so opener is catering to the case where 1NT has 2 card support.

In the second auction it is the first chance to bid spades and the diamond bidder could have between 0 and 4 spades and will definitely not bid spades with the favourable case of 3-4. I disagree with you that in this case you need substantially better/longer spades than the first case to bid 4♠.

So overall I think we differ on the question what class of hands the 4♠ bidder will hold. I think it changes the parameters of the 5 level pull a lot. And I suggest we agree to disagree .

[Fluffy]

Not sure if its because the new forum format, but trying to understand Rayner's arguments gave me a headache.

Did he suggest any other action rather than double 4♠?

[rhm]

Fluffy, on 2010-October-21, 08:04, said:

Not sure if its because the new forum format, but trying to understand Rayner's arguments gave me a headache.

Did he suggest any other action rather than double 4♠?

No, I suggested that opener should haver removed the DBL to 5♥.
I would always dbl with the given hand 4♠, but I would not pass with opener's hand. (neither would I have opened 1♥, but the vast majority would. I explained that in a previous post)

Rainer Herrmann

[Fluffy]

Ah, I missed there was a partner's hand avaible, he has a close decision high ODR but low power.