[mikeh]

Scoring: IMP

2nd match of the rosenblum roundrobin. The auction at our table was 1♠ p 1N 2♠ 3♠ p 4♠ 4n p 5♣ p 5♦ x all pass

---

750 was a push. Since 6♣ is cold and 6♠ may well make, the question arises of whether there is any blame to be assigned or is this just 'one of those hands'?

[hanp]

First of all, what is your teamname Mike? Go get them!

About the hand, I think east might have done more. If 1S - 3C was available as invitational, that would have been good. This is not a typical hand perhaps but I'd like to mention the clubs and show some strength. After 3S I think 4C would be good, even though I don't know if you play it as a cue or as natural. Fits both!

West had several options over 4NT. I don't know what west thought pass followed by double of 5D shows. I think it is better to double 4NT to announce ownership of the hand (I don't think that is clear yet, 3S has a lower limit than a jump to 3S in the uncontested auction) and then to pass 5D. After double and pass I think that east has a really clear pull.

Having said that, I think it is definitely 'one of those hands' in the sense that you can't always control what's going to happen, and you need some luck to end up on the winning side.

[mikeh]

Rayner. I was S on this hand, and thought it almost impossible to get this right E-W. Our teammate thought about upgrading E to a GF 2♣ call....neither team had an invitational club bid available over 1♠....but I agree with his 1N call....there was nothing to warn him of the impending red/white 5-level competition.

[jdonn]

East should just start with 2♣. Similar reasoning I used for another problem this morning, but what's the point of 1NT if you can never describe your hand after that? Plus you have Kx of partner's suit so you can get away with a slight overbid to get your shape across. Also I have no idea why east didn't double 5♣ just to tell west more about the hand. So I definitely blame east since if you look at the entire auction east never described his hand one bit.

Sorry 1NT just makes no sense to me. If partner has the ace of clubs you are really likely to make 3NT so 2/1 is not really an overbid. And say after 1NT partner bids 2♠, what are you worth now? Or even if he bids 2♦ and you bid 3♣ you haven't shown how good your hand is or that you have Kx of partner's suit. 1NT will work badly both in competition and without any competition. I'm not saying 2♣ will lead to a making slam but gee, we make 6♣ and we never bid clubs at all, maybe the guy with 7 clubs is to blame.

[Fluffy]

I my methods 1NT-3♣ is invitational because I play direct jump to 3♣ as 6-9, the agreements in play are relevant towards this matter.

I don't think bidding 4♣ over 3♠ or doubling 5♣ will induce west to do anything else than double 5♦. Bidding 4♣ might let south bid cheaper and them finding a sacrifice risking less so I don't think it is a great bid.

Unless you start with direct 2♣ GF I think east-west are toasted.

[hanp]

Oh yeah I agree with Josh of course about east doubling 5C. That was strange. Did east think that south was going to pass 5C? That would be a strange idea.

[cherdanno]

mikeh, on Oct 6 2010, 10:38 AM, said:

Rayner.

Doing well!
Cheers for the round of 64!

[cherdanno]

On the original question: I would also overbid with 2♣, because I would really like to show this club suit!
I agree East should double 5♣, but I am not sure it would help much - showing 4-cards or a good 3-cards in a suit where we have KQJT3 isn't going to help much.

But I understand 1NT and 2♣ would lead to other problems in other auctions. I am not sure I agree with Han that East should bid 4♣, most of the time this will just help opponents with the lead (if it's a cue) or with the decision to save (if it's natural), I would rather bid our game contract right away. On the other hand, I don't see how West's decision to pass 4NT and double 5♦, instead of doubling 4NT and passing anything at the 5-level, would be able to help.

So I would give 20% blame to West's failure to double 4NT, a reprimand on East's failure to double 5♣, and 80% blame to random timing of the auction and the dealer.

[jdonn]

Good point about doubling 4NT vs 5♦ so I should give west some blame, although you should probably give east some considering you disagree with two things he did.

[cherdanno]

jdonn, on Oct 7 2010, 07:00 PM, said:

Good point about doubling 4NT vs 5♦ so I should give west some blame, although you should probably give east some considering you disagree with two things he did.

I was wondering why you didn't comment on this suggestion from Han. I guess I was right that you didn't read it