[bd71]

Scoring: MP

(2♠) X (P) 3♦
(P) 3♥ (P) 4♣
(P) 4N* (P) 5♦*
(P) 6♦ (P)

*Standard blackwood

Ignore bidding, as it's another thread.

---

Typical club game opponents. LHO is unlikely to have bid 2♠ with 5.

LHO leads K♥. What is the best approach here?

[kenrexford]

Cross-ruff seems obvious.

[bd71]

Maybe I'm missing something (or maybe all other paths are worse), but getting 12 tricks (8♦, 2♠, 1♥, 1♣) on cross-ruff requires:

1. RHO to have 2 spades (meaning LHO bid 2♠ with 5), AND
2. LHO to have 3 hearts OR no trump to over-ruff

This combo seemed really unlikely...are there truly no other better options?

[W Kovacs]

bd71, on Aug 11 2010, 04:07 PM, said:

Maybe I'm missing something (or maybe all other paths are worse), but getting 12 tricks (8♦, 2♠, 1♥, 1♣) on cross-ruff requires:

1. RHO to have 2 spades (meaning LHO bid 2♠ with 5), AND
2. LHO to have 3 hearts OR no trump to over-ruff

This combo seemed really unlikely...are there truly no other better options?

bd71 beat me to it. I assume that RHO only has 1♠, so our KS is kaput without drawing trump. I am also placing the QJ♠ in LHO's hand.

Having ♥ break 4-3 isn't out of the realm of possibility. Is it logical to assume LHO started with KQx and go from there?

I'd almost expect ♦ to break 4-1, with the length to the right. Even with these guesses, I still don't see a clear path.

[Cyberyeti]

The best chance I can see given the lead is to play W for QJxxxx, KQx, xx, xx.

AH, H ruff, AC, C ruff, AK D, H ruff, draw trump and score 3 hearts, 5 diamonds in hand, 1 club ruff and 3 hearts.

[Vilgan]

Most likely layout would be short hearts w/ LHO, but I don't think its makeable then. Some other less likely layouts but might be possible could be:

QTxxxx
KQx
xx
xx

or

QTxxxx
KQx
x
Jxx

Play for 2nd hand might go something like: A of hearts, club Q (covered), club ruff, heart ruff, club ruff, diamond ace, heart ruff, 2 more rounds of trump(pitching spades), *club T, spade to A, J of hearts. They ruff the K of spades w/ last trump but it doesn't matter. If LHO pitches a spade on 3rd club aka first hand (and didn't drop J), then it switches at * to: spade to A, J of hearts, K of spades, 5th heart making 7 I think. If he pitches Q of hearts, then route to 12 should still be pretty easy since you can afford to ruff 3rd heart high.

Kind of just threw this together so plz point out if I'm missing something obvious

[gnasher]

We could play for trumps 2=3 and clubs 4-3:
♥A
♠A
♣A
ruff three clubs in dummy and two hearts in hand
♠K

If RHO ruffs, we ruff the continuation and draw trumps. If he doesn't, we have nine tricks already and three trumps to come.

[Fluffy]

gnasher, on Aug 11 2010, 10:42 PM, said:

We could play for trumps 2=3 and clubs 4-3:
♥A
♠A
♣A
ruff three clubs in dummy and two hearts in hand
♠K

If RHO ruffs, we ruff the continuation and draw trumps. If he doesn't, we have nine tricks already and three trumps to come.

given that LHO opened weak 2, maybe this can be improved playing ♣Q from dummy and letting it run so you can get extra chances when ♣J falls.

[kenrexford]

If you win the heart, ruff a heart, spade to Ace, ruff a heart, and the hearts split 3-2 with the KQx dropping, then you claim. Hence, if you start down the cross-ruff line, you will obviously change tacks if the whole hand sets up.

So, that's not a different line than the cross-ruff. Obviously, however, if the hearts DON'T set up, you might end up just hoping the LHO had a NV 5-card BS 2♠ opening, which is far from shocking at IMP scoring.

[gnasher]

gnasher, on Aug 11 2010, 11:42 PM, said:

We could play for trumps 2=3 and clubs 4-3:
♥A
♠A
♣A
ruff three clubs in dummy and two hearts in hand
♠K

If RHO ruffs, we ruff the continuation and draw trumps. If he doesn't, we have nine tricks already and three trumps to come.

Given the bidding and opening lead, my suggestion isn't very sensible - it's playing for LHO to be something like 6323.

[gnasher]

kenrexford, on Aug 12 2010, 01:12 AM, said:

If you win the heart, ruff a heart, spade to Ace, ruff a heart, and the hearts split 3-2 with the KQx dropping, then you claim.

Ken, you do understand that the objective is to make twelve tricks rather than eleven, don't you?

[kenrexford]

gnasher, on Aug 12 2010, 02:52 AM, said:

kenrexford, on Aug 12 2010, 01:12 AM, said:

If you win the heart, ruff a heart, spade to Ace, ruff a heart, and the hearts split 3-2 with the KQx dropping, then you claim.

Ken, you do understand that the objective is to make twelve tricks rather than eleven, don't you?

Good point. Counted wrong. OOps.

[rhm]

Assume that LHO has the queen of hearts. A complete cross-ruff does not work, because ♠ break 6-1 and you require 2 ♠ tricks.
To come to 12 tricks you need 2 ♣ ruffs in dummy with the short trumps and you need to establish ♥ tricks. On top you need to keep trump control if they do not break. If LHO has a singleton trump he must have less than 4 cards in ♥.

Win the ace of ♥. Play queen of ♣ to ace and ruff a ♣, ruff a heart and ruff another club and cash the last ♦ in dummy.
The play diverges now, depending on the number of ♣s LHO had.

1) If the queen of ♥ is still outstanding and LHO followed to 3 rounds of clubs
LHO seems to be 6=3=1=3

Duck a small ♥ to the bare queen, discarding a ♣ from hand. LHO will have nothing but spades to return.

Win in dummy and feed RHO the jack of ♥.
Should he ruff in, over-ruff and draw trumps, discarding the small ♠ in dummy. Enter dummy in ♠.
If RHO does not ruff in, discard your remaining ♣ loser and then your ♠ on the high ♥. you remain with high trumps in hand.

Whenever the queen of ♥ drops on the second round, ruff a ♥ and draw trumps. Dummy will be high except for the fifth ♥.
(If LHO has 6=3=1=3 and drops the queen of ♥ on the second round, congratulate him for the defense of the year.)

2) If LHO does not follow to the third round of ♣ assume LHO to be 6=3=2=2. Now you can make all the tricks.

Ruff a ♥, draw trumps discarding your small ♠ in dummy.

3) If LHO does not follow to the second round of ♣, play him for 6=3=3=1 or 6=4=2=1

Ruff a ♥. If the queen drops draw trumps and dummy is high (13 tricks). If the queen of ♥ did not drop (LHO being 6=4=2=1), draw trumps anyway, discarding your small ♠ in dummy, enter dummy in ♠ and pass a ♥ to the queen. Again LHO will have nothing but ♠ to return

If LHO has a singleton trump and 4 ♥ give up.

Rainer Herrmann

[pooltuna]

8♦+2♠+1♥+1♣=12. ruff the ♥s with the 2 low ♦s

[rhm]

Vilgan, on Aug 11 2010, 05:26 PM, said:

Most likely layout would be short hearts w/ LHO, but I don't think its makeable then. Some other less likely layouts but might be possible could be:

QTxxxx
KQx
xx
xx

or

QTxxxx
KQx
x
Jxx

Play for 2nd hand might go something like: A of hearts, club Q (covered), club ruff, heart ruff, club ruff, diamond ace, heart ruff, 2 more rounds of trump(pitching spades), *club T, spade to A, J of hearts. They ruff the K of spades w/ last trump but it doesn't matter.

Kind of just threw this together so plz point out if I'm missing something obvious

It does matter,
When RHO ruffs the king of spades you are out of trumps. RHO can then cash at least one high club for down one.

Rainer Herrmann

[rhm]

pooltuna, on Aug 16 2010, 10:15 AM, said:

8♦+2♠+1♥+1♣=12. ruff the ♥s with the 2 low ♦s

This does not work.
If you try to make all your trumps separately you can never win 2 tricks in ♠, because RHO has only one and will ruff the second one.

Rainer Herrman