Help
I always presumed Drury (reverse or otherwise) showed a fit ... until I saw an ACBL card had a 'Fit' box to check on the Drury line, alongside options for Reverse and 2-way.
Reverse drury
#21
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 5,232
- Joined: 2003-April-26
- Gender:Male
- Location:Edinburgh
Posted 2010-August-10, 09:38
#22
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 642
- Joined: 2007-October-30
- Gender:Male
- Location:Redmond, WA
Posted 2010-August-10, 10:57
helene_t, on Aug 10 2010, 07:08 AM, said:
Why on Earth would anyone psyche Drury? In the hope that next time you use it they think it's a psyche again so the don't sac?
I don't know about psyching Drury, but I psyched a pass of Drury in the midnights in New Orleans. Now LHO "knew" they had spades, leading to an amusing 2S-3 by their side to pick up some imps for us.
#23
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 12,029
- Joined: 2009-February-21
- Gender:Male
- Location:St. George, UT
Posted 2010-August-10, 11:06
And they can't accuse you of having controls for that psyche 
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
#24
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 13,794
- Joined: 2005-June-15
- Gender:Male
- Location:Canada
- Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.
Posted 2010-August-10, 11:30
cardsharp, on Aug 10 2010, 10:38 AM, said:
I always presumed Drury (reverse or otherwise) showed a fit ... until I saw an ACBL card had a 'Fit' box to check on the Drury line, alongside options for Reverse and 2-way.
That's because drury, as originally invented, didn't promise a fit...it merely asked about opener's strength.
Drury was invented at a time when RS tendencies ran high....very, very solid opening bids in 1st and 2nd. This approach mandated very, very light action in 3rd and even 4th seat, else one risked being passed out cold for game!
Drury mutated quite early, and one variant...that eventually became standard...was known for a while as 'drury-fit'. Eventually 'everybody' played it as fit showing and the 'fit' in drury fit was dropped as redundant.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#25
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 815
- Joined: 2009-August-31
Posted 2010-August-11, 01:16
helene_t, on Aug 10 2010, 09:08 AM, said:
kenrexford, on Aug 9 2010, 09:59 PM, said:
Another exception is when you have a tactical reason to fudge the support. Not sure when that would happen, but I like options.
Why on Earth would anyone psyche Drury? In the hope that next time you use it they think it's a psyche again so the don't sac?
p p 1M p 2C p p! p
thats a fun psyche that comes up fairly often.
But yeah, if you psyche the 2C bid you've thrown good decision making in the trash
Aaron Jones Unit 557
www.longbeachbridge.com
www.longbeachbridge.com
#26
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 77
- Joined: 2006-May-01
Posted 2010-August-12, 10:38
In the New Orleans nationals, flight B GNT, there was a pair who played no fit drury. It showed limit raise values and said nothing about a fit in opener's suit at all. They both referred to it as drury, and seemed not to know that most people play that drury does indicate a fit.
#27
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 12,029
- Joined: 2009-February-21
- Gender:Male
- Location:St. George, UT
Posted 2010-August-12, 11:10
h2osmom, on Aug 12 2010, 10:38 AM, said:
In the New Orleans nationals, flight B GNT, there was a pair who played no fit drury. It showed limit raise values and said nothing about a fit in opener's suit at all. They both referred to it as drury, and seemed not to know that most people play that drury does indicate a fit.
Did it show clubs? If so, it probably would have been better to not alert or call it anything unless Opener must make a specified set of rebids to show min or max.
Or maybe we should alert our passed hand 2C response to 1M as "natural and forcing for one round, with no artificial follow-up structure". It certainly is highly unusual and unexpected, since the vast majority use some form of the "D" word.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
#28
- Andy Bowles
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 11,993
- Joined: 2007-May-03
- Gender:Male
- Location:London, UK
Posted 2010-August-12, 11:18
I agree with MikeH. How should I vote?
Regarding the other vital matter being discussed in this thread, I think that to guarantee implies more formality than to promise - typically a guarantee is written but a promise is verbal. To guarantee something doesn't, in general, imply any financial commitment, unless it's on the lines of "I guarantee that I'll pay you [in some specified circumstances]."
Regarding the other vital matter being discussed in this thread, I think that to guarantee implies more formality than to promise - typically a guarantee is written but a promise is verbal. To guarantee something doesn't, in general, imply any financial commitment, unless it's on the lines of "I guarantee that I'll pay you [in some specified circumstances]."
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#29
- - - T98765432 AQT8
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 15,085
- Joined: 2005-June-23
- Gender:Male
- Location:Las Vegas, NV
Posted 2010-August-12, 11:21
gnasher, on Aug 12 2010, 12:18 PM, said:
I agree with MikeH. How should I vote?
I'm not sure why you don't know, the question being asked is what you think (reverse) drury means now.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
#30
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 13,794
- Joined: 2005-June-15
- Gender:Male
- Location:Canada
- Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.
Posted 2010-August-12, 11:26
jdonn, on Aug 12 2010, 12:21 PM, said:
gnasher, on Aug 12 2010, 12:18 PM, said:
I agree with MikeH. How should I vote?
I'm not sure why you don't know, the question being asked is what you think (reverse) drury means now.
Andy agreeing with me is such a rare event that it has him at a loss!
(I on the other hand often agree with him
)
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#31
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 77
- Joined: 2006-May-01
Posted 2010-August-13, 19:52
aguahombre, on Aug 12 2010, 12:10 PM, said:
h2osmom, on Aug 12 2010, 10:38 AM, said:
In the New Orleans nationals, flight B GNT, there was a pair who played no fit drury. It showed limit raise values and said nothing about a fit in opener's suit at all. They both referred to it as drury, and seemed not to know that most people play that drury does indicate a fit.
Did it show clubs? If so, it probably would have been better to not alert or call it anything unless Opener must make a specified set of rebids to show min or max.
Or maybe we should alert our passed hand 2C response to 1M as "natural and forcing for one round, with no artificial follow-up structure". It certainly is highly unusual and unexpected, since the vast majority use some form of the "D" word.
no, it had nothing to do with clubs, it was just limit raise values and they would continue bidding to find the right strain.
#32
- Andy Bowles
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 11,993
- Joined: 2007-May-03
- Gender:Male
- Location:London, UK
Posted 2010-August-16, 09:42
mikeh, on Aug 12 2010, 06:26 PM, said:
Andy agreeing with me is such a rare event that it has him at a loss!
(I on the other hand often agree with him )
(I on the other hand often agree with him
)I often agree with you, but when I do you've usually already said everything I can think of to say. Anyway, most threads can support only one 500-word post.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#33
- Deipnosophist
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 4,386
- Joined: 2005-March-22
Posted 2010-August-16, 13:57
h2osmom, on Aug 13 2010, 06:52 PM, said:
aguahombre, on Aug 12 2010, 12:10 PM, said:
h2osmom, on Aug 12 2010, 10:38 AM, said:
In the New Orleans nationals, flight B GNT, there was a pair who played no fit drury. It showed limit raise values and said nothing about a fit in opener's suit at all. They both referred to it as drury, and seemed not to know that most people play that drury does indicate a fit.
Did it show clubs? If so, it probably would have been better to not alert or call it anything unless Opener must make a specified set of rebids to show min or max.
Or maybe we should alert our passed hand 2C response to 1M as "natural and forcing for one round, with no artificial follow-up structure". It certainly is highly unusual and unexpected, since the vast majority use some form of the "D" word.
no, it had nothing to do with clubs, it was just limit raise values and they would continue bidding to find the right strain.
You are confusing me somewhat with your use of the term "limit raise". To me "limit raise" means you are showing a fit, since you are "raising" my suit. The "limit" aspect of it is that you are showing invitational values. Compare that with "weak" or "preemptive" or "mixed" or "game forcing" raises, all of which show a fit, but imply different strengths.
Perhaps what you mean to say is "invitational values", which may or may not have a fit?
"Half the people you know are below average." - Steven Wright
#34
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,427
- Joined: 2005-August-12
- Gender:Male
-
Interests:Economics
Finance
Bridge bidding theory
Cooking
Downhill skiing
Posted 2010-August-19, 19:38
Kind of a duh... issue. Pard may not GUARANTEE or ever PROMISE a ♠ fit, but his hand better be able to handle a response of 4♠ by an opener with a wide variety of good hands. Hiding the nature of opener's strength with an immediate jump to game is too valuable to give up With discussion one could devise a system that precluded a 4♠ bid by opener, but that is another story.