[gurgistan]

How is one to show a slam attempt over a 1N opener in 2/1?

In SA, it goes like this:

1N - 2♣- Opener's Rebid - 3♣ for a slam attempt in Clubs.

1N - 2♣ - Opener's Rebid - 3♦ for a slam attempt in Diamonds.

1N - 3♥ for a slam attempt in Hearts.

1N - 3♠ for a slam attempt in Spades.


However, the latter two sequences wrong side the contract. So my partner and I played:

1N - 2♦ - 2♥ - 4♥ for a slam attempt in Hearts.

1N - 2♥ - 2♠ - 4♠ for a slam attempt in Spades.

We would use Texas Transfers for simple Game Hands (length but few points with responder).

Are these slam attempt sequences used by 2/1 players?

Any and all help appreciated.

[nigel_k]

There's isn't a single standard approach and in 2/1 you definitely can and should use the same methods over 1NT that you would use in SAYC or other system.

If using Smolen, you will start with Stayman on all hands with both majors so you can transfer and bid the other major with a single suited slam try. With a shortage you can also auto-splinter, e.g. 1NT-2♦-2♥-4♣. Apart from that, I wouldn't worry too much about 'right-siding' on slam hands. It could be right to play from either side.

[aguahombre]

NT sequences are separate from 2/1. You can use whatever works for you after 1NT.

2/1 system involves responses and rebids after a suit opening.

[kenrexford]

1NT response structures vary wildly, and many are good. Answering your question, however, is like asking people what dish is best for Sunday dinner. Lots of popular choices.

[jjbrr]

over transfer auctions (1 major) i like self splinters.

over stayman auctions, i like 3 other Major=unbal slam try, 4C=either bal quantitative or RKC, and 4D=either bal quantitative or RKC

[gurgistan]

kenrexford, on Aug 8 2010, 07:33 AM, said:

1NT response structures vary wildly, and many are good. Answering your question, however, is like asking people what dish is best for Sunday dinner. Lots of popular choices.

If you could just outline the most popular response structure found among 2/1 players then I would be much indebted.

[kenrexford]

gurgistan, on Aug 8 2010, 11:58 AM, said:

kenrexford, on Aug 8 2010, 07:33 AM, said:

1NT response structures vary wildly, and many are good.  Answering your question, however, is like asking people what dish is best for Sunday dinner.  Lots of popular choices.

If you could just outline the most popular response structure found among 2/1 players then I would be much indebted.

I suck in that regard (knowing what normal people play).

I also personally play various methods with various people. That said, it sounds like your level is up-and-coming. Therefore, I will suggest that which I play with my wife. It is not "standard" by far, but it it easy. It is also not what I play with my regular tournament partner, but that's way complicated.

She and I (and others in my local club) play a 2♠ response as a minor-oriented response. It shows one or both minors, weak or GF+. With an invitational one-suited minor, we blast 3♣ or 3♦.

Opener, upon hearing the 2♠ response, indicates which minor he prefers. 3♣ shows club preference; 2NT shows diamond preference.

After hearing partner's preference, Responder, if holding a weak minor two-suiter, bids three of the minor that Opener prefers, to play. If Responder has a weak hand with just one minor, he bids the minor at the three-level, or passes 3♣ (if opener preferred clubs). Notice that showing diamond preference by bidding 2NT gets below 3♣, which helps if Responder has the weak hand with clubs. Not also that Responder might opt to bid 2♠ with a tweener hand, to see if Opener prefers his minor, in which case Responder might bid aggressively, although this would be really rare.

If Responder instead has a GF hand, with or without slam interest, he uses "Flags." A "flag" is sort of like a transfer; you bid one suit to really show a different suit. With these "flags," Responder bids 3♥ or 3♠ to show GF+ with whichever minor 3♥ or 3♠ shows. Personally, I think "rank," so I would normally bid 3♥ (lower) as a "flag" for clubs or 3♠ (higher) as a "flag" for spades. My wife thinks colors, so she does it the other way, so I adjust for her. Either way works. So, with a slammish one-suiter in a minor, Responder bids 2♠, hears a preference, and then flags the minor he has. Again, responder might opt to sign off at 3NT after the preference is the preference is disappointing (usually, that's Responder's shortness).

With the GF+ minor two-suiter, Responder flags the one Opener prefers. Sure -- Opener then doesn't know if this is a one-suiter or a two-suiter, but so what?

After all of this, you then do whatever makes sense in your judgment, using whatever tools are available in your arsenal.

That's the minors. With the majors, two-suited, my wife and I bid 3♥ with 5-5 and invitational or 3♠ with 5-5 and GF+. After the 3♠ call, the "flags" arise again, but this time Opener flags the major he likes with 4♣ or 4♦ (rank or color as you like) with maximums, 4M with minimums.

With a one-suiter major, she and I do not have anything sexy worked out yet, so we just transfer...4M with slam interest, transfer...splinter with slam interest, or texas without slam interest.

[blackshoe]

I don't believe a single "most popular" structure exists. However, most of the "most popular" group include Stayman and Jacoby Transfers (to hearts or spades). Beyond that, there's too many variants to name one as "most popular". I suppose you might look at Bridge World Standard which uses four suit transfers (2♠ transfers to ♣, 2NT transfers to ♦) and uses 3 level bids to show minor two suiters.

[gurgistan]

Thank you kenrexford. I chose not to quote your excellent outline as I wish to ask another question and keep the post some what short so the question is focused upon.

As it stands, if my partner invites a slam then I would take it up.

But such a blanket policy cannot be right.

What factors should I take into count when I am 1NT opener deciding to go for the slam?

Length of fit? Whether I am maximum or minimum point count for my bid? No wasted values?

Again, much indebted.

[nigel_k]

gurgistan, on Aug 9 2010, 07:29 AM, said:

What factors should I take into count when I am 1NT opener deciding to go for the slam?

Length of fit? Whether I am maximum or minimum point count for my bid? No wasted values?

Again, much indebted.

Trump length
Trick source (e.g. AKxxx in a side suit that can be established by ruffing)
Honour location - partner is going to be 6322 at least so queen and jacks are useful in the trump suit but not so useful outside
Controls
Overall hand strength
Whether you have a possible ruffing value

All of these matter and you have to weigh up their relative value but I've tried to list them in rough order of importance.

If partner has shown a shortage or a second suit, obviously your holding in that suit will be important as well.

[kenrexford]

Generally what Nigel said.

Here's a way to think about it, IMO. Suppose partner shows spades as his suit, with slam interest.

You could have an absolutel rock:

♠KQxx ♥AKQx ♦Kxx ♣xx

This hand produces about six assured honor cover cards and has shortness with the means of doing something about it.

Or, you could have utter junk:

♠xx ♥QJxx ♦QJxx ♣AKQ

Only three assured covers (maybe), with no shortness and no fit.

So, the rough range is about 3-7 values. We can probably toss out the top and bottom as rare and insanely good. So, maybe 4-6 "values" are expected.

If this is true, then you generally want to see whether you have 4 values, which is a decline, 6 values, which is an accept, or 5 values, which is a trial.

That WAY oversimplifies things. But, the idea is to recognize a reality. Whereas the notrump range seems to be tight (15-17), the real range in a suit contract is rather wide (3-7 values). A 15-count with lots of values is much more interesting for partner than a 17-count with few values. Adjust your thinking accordingly.

[lmilne]

That way of thinking is pretty new to me Rexford, I normally just play it by ear and compare what I hold with other hands I might have. Far from perfect, as you might imagine!

Do you have any more information about expected "values" etc?

[kenrexford]

lmilne, on Aug 9 2010, 04:36 AM, said:

That way of thinking is pretty new to me Rexford, I normally just play it by ear and compare what I hold with other hands I might have. Far from perfect, as you might imagine!

Do you have any more information about expected "values" etc?

Actually, a friend of mine and partner has a fairly good book on point. You can find Ken Eichenbaum's "Winners, Losers and Cover Cards" at www.ebooksbridge.com in an ebook format, or in a paperback at Amazon or a few other online bookstores.

[peachy]

The 2/1 system has no bearing on how we bid after our 1NT opening.
There is no "best" way to bid over 1NT, agree on one system with partner and see how it works. If it doesn't work, agree on another. Lots of popular and not-so-popular approaches exist. Transfer on the two-level and then jump to game in the suit is probably 100% understood as mild slam try, if Texas was on the card.

[rduran1216]

The walsh relay works well for finding MSS slams

For major suit slams, transfer and bid a new suit to show a bid hand with a big suit.

Since 1NT is usually well defined, you have to take charge and move with a hand you think has a shot. Especially if you have some superaccepting structure.

[ONEferBRID]

gurgistan, on Aug 8 2010, 12:53 AM, said:

How is one to show a slam attempt over a 1N opener in 2/1?

Here's a Meckwell treatment for a slammish hand:

from BBO forums 8/29/09

Why didnt we bid the slam? .... by Wackojack

Dealer: West
Vul: E/W
Scoring: IMP
♠ A7
♥ QJ96
♦ K62
♣ AQ97

♠ KQ10985
♥ AK5
♦ 98
♣ K4

1nt-2♥
2♠- 3♣
3NT- 4♠

Meckwell treatment:
1NT - 2H!
2S - 5S! = 2 + sQ w/ 6+cd suit, slammish

Responder makes a TURBO-like bid as if Opener had asked for key cards ! !

[gurgistan]

ONEferBRID, on Aug 10 2010, 06:31 PM, said:

gurgistan, on Aug 8 2010, 12:53 AM, said:

How is one to show a slam attempt over a 1N opener in 2/1?

Here's a Meckwell treatment for a slammish hand:

from BBO forums 8/29/09

Why didnt we bid the slam? .... by Wackojack

Dealer: West
Vul: E/W
Scoring: IMP
♠ A7
♥ QJ96
♦ K62
♣ AQ97

♠ KQ10985
♥ AK5
♦ 98
♣ K4

1nt-2♥
2♠- 3♣
3NT- 4♠

Meckwell treatment:
1NT - 2H!
2S - 5S! = 2 + sQ w/ 6+cd suit, slammish

Responder makes a TURBO-like bid as if Opener had asked for key cards ! !

I really like this Meckwell treatment.

However, I think there are issues when the suit is anything other than spades. There is a real danger of de facto forcing a small slam whether opener likes it or not.

[bluecalm]

If you play like Meckwell you have 2nd round transfers anyway so you don't need those fancy jump to 5 level. It goes like this:

1NT - 2♥
2♠ - ???
2NT = ♣
3♣ = ♦
3♦ = ♥

Now you have 3 bids available for various hands with 6+ spades or 5-3-3-2:
3♥/3♠/3NT

From what I remember Mekwell use one of them to show choice of games, one of them to ask partner to convert to 4♠ with 3 spades regardless of rest of his hand and one of them (3♥) to show 6+ spades.

I love this structure as it makes easy to search for 4-4 fit on the side as well as making slam attempt with 6+♠. I think partner should only accept transfer with 4 of them. Bid 3 of first transferred suit with 3 card support and bid naturally without one or the other. Now if partner shows fit for one of the transferred suits you can make a cuebid (or whatever you play) and if he doesn't you have quantitive slam try available (4NT). I am sure Meckwell play something more sophisticated though.

The cost is that you need other way to show balanced invite with 5 spades (Meckwell uses stayman -> 2♠ for the purpose). With 5 hearts you bid 2♦ and then 2♠ (transfer to 2NT, balanced invite).

[gurgistan]

Scoring: IMP

Is this a perfectly bid small slam in the minors after a 1N opener?

One table out of the sixteen reached 6♣.

They bid it, in an uncontested auction thus:

East bid 1N: West bid 2♣. East bid 2♦. West bid 3♣. East bid 4N. West bid 5♠. East bid 6♣.

Summary: West makes a slam enquiry via Stayman and East gets to slam via Roman Keycard Blackwood.

---

[manudude03]

The East hand is really too strong for 1NT. West's bidding is too wrong for words (3C should show at least a good 5 card suit, and often 6).

I'd probably be bidding:

- 1C
1S 2NT
4NT P.

West isn't necessarily showing a slam try either, could be something like xx KJxx x AQTxxx and trying to get to the right game. And as one last point, tightly defined hands shouldn't jump to use 4NT, theres 2 levels of bidding there to use.