[wank]

Scoring: IMP

---

1C from east, 1d from south, 2C from north, 2S from south, 3C from north, 3D from south, 4D from north.....that's it

5D is cold and 3NT is pretty decent.......who should man up and bid game?

[aguahombre]

2C=presumably l.r. + in diamonds, but o.k. to explore for major suit fit. However, in the range for an overcall, South should first establish that we have game, before the knee-jerk 2S call.

(1C) 1D - (P) 2C
(P) 3C - (P) 3D (acknowledging the diamond fit)
(P) 3S - (P) 3N

[Fluffy]

you found the non making game aquahombre

I think north's hand is close to good enough to drive to game after 2♠.

I believe 4♦ is forcing, so IMO both players missbid

[gnasher]

The problem was that South didn't know about the spade shortage, and North didn't know that South was so prime. On this hand, ♠Axxx is more useful than ♠KQJx. If South did have ♠KQJx, he would have bid a non-making 5♦, with 3NT still reasonable.

Maybe South should bid 3♥ over 3♦, hinting at spade shortage? That might encourage South to bid 5♦. Alternatively, it might go 3♥-4♣-5♦, South's 4♣ being a last-chance game try, and his failure to bid 3♠ suggesting not much wastage there.

[JLOGIC]

I AM A PSYCHOPATH BUT MIKEH IS GIVING ME THE HELP I NEED

[cherdanno]

North makes a limit raise, South shows extras with 2S, north also shows extras with 3C. That auction is game-forcing for me.
I like 3H over 3D, we have spade shortness and a club holding that doesn't scream 3N; whatever 3H says, it must be reasonable description. Over that I would continue 4D 5D I think.

[aguahombre]

Fluffy, on Aug 4 2010, 02:37 AM, said:

you found the non making game aquahombre

Wouldn't be the first time; that would be the auction; opener has to have five clubs, or there has to be a spade lead at trick one with spades not 4 4.

In any case, I will try winning a black suit lead at trick one and take the heart hook.

[gnasher]

JLOGIC, on Aug 4 2010, 10:38 AM, said:

Does 3H really hint at spade shortness, rather than just heart values trying to rightside 3N?

You've got length in diamonds and hearts; some hands with three spades would bid 3♠; and the opponents haven't been jumping around in clubs. Eash of those makes spade shortage more likely, so all of them together might add up to a hint. I didn't necessarily mean a singleton - a small doubleton also makes 5♦ more attractive.

I agree that there's no certainty about this - I'm sure I could construct a hand where South bids 3♥ with ♠xxx or ♠Qx.

I'm not sure that I agree that 3♥ might be trying to right-side 3NT. If North bids 3NT, opener will be on lead, which is probably good enough unless West has an unexpected king over South's queen. It seems better to use the available space to discuss what the right contract is, and forget the right-siding question.

[neilkaz]

Hmm.. South hears North cuebid twice and then raise 3♦ to 4 and then he chickens out at IMPs with his prime beauty !

While I don't think North bid this hand that well (but I don't know what specific agreements the OP has to be sure) I have to give majority of the blame to South here as stopping in 4♦ is lame.

[Hanoi5]

60-40, North and South. North cue-bids twice and South bids 2 suits (which I would take as not showing a weak hand) and 4♦ is bid and passed? Wrong.

[gszeszycki]

Even with not having a clue what all the bids mean to this partnership -----
south should be willing to shoulder the blame for this missed game for one simple reason. N has been trying VERY hard to reach game despite having zero
trump honors. Even if making sound overcalls it is rare to have everything in a suit.
N is undoubtedly holding back some due to trump quality question and S has trump quality galore and a side suit ace (many times better than KQJ in high level suit contracts) I not only would have bid game but cue bid 4S on the way to 5d just in case.

[OldPalooka]

Why not 3S instead of 2C? Even an off beat fit jump in hearts is more useful than 2C and 3C since it gives the auction some definition rather than just making a purring noise.

Still, passing 4D with South's cards after partner has begged you to bid 5 is boggling.

[gwnn]

Hi Alex,

Was the 4♦ nonforcing?

If it was, then S should accept and N shouldn't bid it,
S should accept because he has great diamonds and maybe his partner was afraid of trump losers
N shouldn't bid it because he has a nice hand for diamonds and two aces, well OK it is a little reasonable though to bid it as I'm writing this, he does have a singleton where his partner's values are, but I still would just bid 5♦ after 3♦ from S.
so in this case I'd say it's about 50-50

If it was, then S shouldn't pass it, N was a little optimistic looking for slam wasn't he? but that's also in the realm of reason and surely you don't get blame for missing game because you made a slam try?
so in this case I'd say S 100%

If there was no clear agreement about this (as is the case for me with at least 3 different partners) then N shouldn't risk 4♦ so it would be 75-25.

[ONEferBRID]

wank, on Aug 4 2010, 12:39 AM, said:

Dealer: East Vul: Both Scoring: IMP

♠ x ♥ AQJx ♦ xxxx ♣ Axxx ♠ Axxx ♥ Tx ♦ AKQJx ♣ xx

1C from east, 1d from south, 2C from north, 2S from south, 3C from north, 3D from south, 4D from north.....that's it

5D is cold and 3NT is pretty decent.......who should man up and bid game?

What about a fit-showing-jump in competition ?

Will the four card A Q J x suffice or do you need 5 cds ?

( 1C ) - 1D - ( p ) - 2H! = 4+♦ and a ♥ suit
( p )   - 2S - ( p ) - 2NT
( p )   - 3D - ( p ) - 4D
( p )   - 5D - all pass

[aguahombre]

I don't see anything wrong with a fit jump, but this is where J.S. responses to overcalls are usually just defined as forcing and natural, therefore longer hearts than just four.

I don't know the frequency of occurrence comparisons, which would be the reason to change or not to change this long-standing approach. Maybe someone else does.

[ONEferBRID]

wank, on Aug 4 2010, 12:39 AM, said:

Dealer: East Vul: Both Scoring: IMP

♠ x ♥ AQJx ♦ xxxx ♣ Axxx ♠ Axxx ♥ Tx ♦ AKQJx ♣ xx

1C from east, 1d from south, 2C from north, 2S from south, 3C from north, 3D from south, 4D from north.....that's it

5D is cold and 3NT is pretty decent.......who should man up and bid game?

Alternatively....
isn't a 1H Advance forcing?

( 1C ) - 1D - ( p ) - 1H
( p )   - 1S - ( p ) - 2NT
( p )   - 3D - ( p ) - 4D
( p )   - 5D - all pass

[peachy]

South should not pass 4D. Regarding the earlier bidding, whether it is ideal or not, does not matter.

[benlessard]

WTP board


(1C) ---

1D---1H
1S---3D
3H---5D

[jdonn]

South should not pass 4♦, but why did north bid 4♦? At that point either 3♥ or 5♦ seems more direct.

[aguahombre]

In most styles I have seen, the 1H advance to a diamond overcall shows 5+hearts, and some values, but is nowhere near forcing. If it were forcing, that would be nice on this hand for you.

but then I guess you have to pass with KX AJTXX XX XXXX or all the other hands of that ilk. I don't want to do that, nor do I want that hand to be a force on partner who might be minimum for the overcall.