[wank]

no, 4D wasn't meant as forcing.

so roughly 2/3 to south for rejecting the final try and 1/3 to north for not just jumping to game?

[Crunch3nt]

aguahombre, on Aug 4 2010, 02:21 PM, said:

In most styles I have seen, the 1H advance to a diamond overcall shows 5+hearts, and some values, but is nowhere near forcing.  If it were forcing, that would be nice on this hand for you. 

but then I guess you have to pass with KX  AJTXX XX XXXX or all the other hands of that ilk.  I don't want to do that, nor do I want that hand to be a force on partner who might be minimum for the overcall.

Surprised by this Hombre.

IH must be allowed to be 4 because most people overcall 1D with good 5/6 card suit and a 4 card major on the side.

Also I thought the majority played a 1 level change of suit opposite an overcall as forcing for 1 round, but a 2 level change of suit as non-forcing?

On your sample hand (Kx AJ10xx xx xxxx), you have too much to pass, so it is a straight forward 1H forcing bid.

[gnasher]

wank, on Aug 4 2010, 09:52 PM, said:

no, 4D wasn't meant as forcing.

so roughly 2/3 to south for rejecting the final try and 1/3 to north for not just jumping to game?

If 4♦ is non-forcing, I don't see that South has much reason to accept. He's already shown extras with 2♠, and he has three unattractive side-suits.

[jdonn]

gnasher, on Aug 4 2010, 04:31 PM, said:

wank, on Aug 4 2010, 09:52 PM, said:

no, 4D wasn't meant as forcing. 

so roughly 2/3 to south for rejecting the final try and 1/3 to north for not just jumping to game?

If 4♦ is non-forcing, I don't see that South has much reason to accept. He's already shown extras with 2♠, and he has three unattractive side-suits.

But he has all the trump honors which is a clear sign his partner will have extra. North would tend to be conservative with bad trumps. Can you think of a hand for him that doesn't make 5♦ good? Remember he bid 3♣ after having already cuebid so needs more than just a run of the mill limit raise.

[neilkaz]

jdonn, on Aug 4 2010, 04:44 PM, said:

gnasher, on Aug 4 2010, 04:31 PM, said:

wank, on Aug 4 2010, 09:52 PM, said:

no, 4D wasn't meant as forcing. 

so roughly 2/3 to south for rejecting the final try and 1/3 to north for not just jumping to game?

If 4♦ is non-forcing, I don't see that South has much reason to accept. He's already shown extras with 2♠, and he has three unattractive side-suits.

But he has all the trump honors which is a clear sign his partner will have extra. North would tend to be conservative with bad trumps. Can you think of a hand for him that doesn't make 5♦ good? Remember he bid 3♣ after having already cuebid so needs more than just a run of the mill limit raise.

More than 2/3 of the blame to South from me.... he was a big wimp for not trying a vulnerable game here. Agreeing with Josh, I find it hard to imagine after PD's bidding that it isn't favorite to make, let alone the 40% that would show a clear profit vulnerable at imps.

[peachy]

wank, on Aug 4 2010, 03:52 PM, said:

no, 4D wasn't meant as forcing.

so roughly 2/3 to south for rejecting the final try and 1/3 to north for not just jumping to game?

If 4D was not forcing, South should still go on to game. North made plenty of noises on earlier rounds and South has a hand that should accept. However, if 4D was not forcing, why is North making a nonforcing bid?

[Fluffy]

wank, on Aug 4 2010, 08:52 PM, said:

no, 4D wasn't meant as forcing.

so roughly 2/3 to south for rejecting the final try and 1/3 to north for not just jumping to game?

how can it not be forcing? first round cuebid, second round cuebid, third round raise, this is the most forcing bid I ever saw .


as mentioned above 1♥ instead of 2♣ makes it easier, I also play 1♥ 4+ cards forcing, That's the way experts play it here, not sure about other countries.