[rogerclee]

MP, all white, 2nd seat

QTx KT6x J9x JT9

P P 1H X
2H P P X
P ?

Your call? Do you change your mind if 2H is less than constructive (4-7)?

[gwnn]

ez pass from me...

[MFA]

2♠. Passing is too risky. If they have any shape at all, 2♥X will make. I hope to make 2♠ so even down one in 2♥X is probably not fantastic.

[jdonn]

There is no way I'm passing, 2♠ with second choice 2NT pick a minor hoping he has 5 in one of them.

[bluecalm]

You guys not worrying about partner being strong (like 17+) and 3NT being on ?
I prefer passing to 2♠ (for that matter I prefer almost anything to 2♠ even 3NT). I think there is a chance for 300. I think 2nd double from partner promises significant extras.

[aguahombre]

We now have three threads where people are finding excuses not to take out a takeout double.

Is partner starting to worry about making takeout doubles?

[gnasher]

Given the sort of balanced cack people double on these days, I don't think that the second double promises the earth. A 41xx 14-count would be enough.

Even if partner has a 17-count, I don't see why you'd hope to make 3NT. AKxx x KQ10xx KQx is quite a nice hand, but opposite that we can't make more than a partscore.

[cherdanno]

It's white/white at matchpoints, and partner has a heart singleton. I don't think this double promises the world, a nice 15 count would be fully sufficient. Since 15 counts are more commont than 18 counts I think it is against the odds to force to game.

I am torn between pass and 2♠. Of course if 2H makes it is right to pull, and when it's down one it is right to pull more often than not (as 2S will usually make). Of course 2H can be down 2 or more when partner is a little bit stronger or when the cards are lying bad for the opponents, but overall I think bidding 2S is right.

[ggwhiz]

I'm bidding with no particular preference for 2♠ or 2nt, natural for me and limited by my pass of 2♥ but pard can still pull to a 5-card minor.

I personally find +100 at these colours instead of +110 or more to be most aggravating and will take some risks to avoid it.

Similar to being +90 against timid red opps when the rest of the field is +100 on defence. Yuk!

[bluecalm]

I guess it's question of style when responding to t/o double.
My style is to bid at the slightest excuse so doubling again with 15count is just asking for trouble. For example I would bid 2♠ round before with:

KQxx xxxx xxx xx

So now if partner doubles again he knows I haven't had anything even slightly reasonable -->> he has a very good hand.

I wouldn't be surprised if we had 26-27hcp on this auction and ended up in some silly 2♠ contract. They opened in 3rd seat afterall, situation would be different after 1st opening because then at least it's not so likely they have 13hcp combined.

[gwnn]

aguahombre, on Jul 24 2010, 05:49 PM, said:

We now have three threads where people are finding excuses not to take out a takeout double.

how about this for an excuse: we don't have a 4 card suit.

Cherdanno: will 2♠ really make so often if 2♥ is down 1? I am very curious, I guess you are basing this on our heart stop so they will not shorten CHO so early, but your assessment still sounds a little too optimistic to me. I guess there is little room for a simulation here and I don't know how else to look for the truth.

[Fluffy]

what? we do have a 4 card suit gwnn, it is hearts.

I like my chances in 3NT

[gnasher]

bluecalm, on Jul 24 2010, 07:29 PM, said:

I guess it's question of style when responding to t/o double.
My style is to bid at the slightest excuse so doubling again with 15count is just asking for trouble. For example I would bid 2♠ round before with:

KQxx xxxx xxx xx

Yes, so would everybody else, I expect. Would you have bid on the round before with xx xxx Jxxx KQxx?

[Hanoi5]

I'd bid 2NT and most of my partners would understand it as natural.

[bluecalm]

Quote

xx xxx Jxxx KQxx?

Nope

I see your point. Still I hate having 25+hcp and play in partscore just because one of them opened no 8 and the other answered with 6 or something.
I think we need some kind of mechanism to find our balance of points here and I prefer to play that 2nd double promises significant extras.
I understand that this style may not be the best though especially at MP's.

[Cascade]

Not sure I like 2NT even if natural.

[MFA]

Cascade, on Jul 24 2010, 11:04 PM, said:

Not sure I like 2NT even if natural.

I like 2NT natural, but not if it is a scramble (as it should be imo). At first it seems like a nice thought getting to 3m in partner's 5card minor. But it's bad if he is 4144. And 3m will be wrongsided and it is low-scoring. As bluecalm is worried about, once in a while partner will be very strong. I just don't think we can bid game now to cater specifically to parner having about a king or ace more than he needs for a second double. In practice he will often be close to minimum for his actions when everybody is bidding. But getting to 2♠ at least will often scores us 140 or 170 instead of 110 or 130 in those cases. And perhaps partner can raise to 3♠ so we get to 3NT after all (yes, I'm dreaming).

[rogerclee]

Result:

2S is making probably 2 but possibly 3, 2H is down 2. Partner had a 4153 14 count with the ace of hearts.

[pooltuna]

well your choices look to be 2♠, 2NT, and pass. Not having bid 2♠ on the previous round, your partner should take this call as a rock bottom minimum. 2NT shows the ♥ stopper but not sure where you are going to take 8 tricks plus the ♥ suit will probably play for only 1 trick. Pass just looks too risky. So all in all I will try 2♠

[pooltuna]

bluecalm, on Jul 24 2010, 12:33 PM, said:

You guys not worrying about partner being strong (like 17+) and 3NT being on ?
I prefer passing to 2♠ (for that matter I prefer almost anything to 2♠ even 3NT). I think there is a chance for 300. I think 2nd double from partner promises significant extras.

If this was IMPS I would easily agree with you. But MPs pushes partner to compete with worse hands. After an IMPS X IMO 2NT is clear