[MickyB]

awm, on Nov 12 2009, 08:11 PM, said:

The "information to the opponents" thing is mostly an illusion too. Sure, there are auctions where bypassing 1♠ hides opener's four-card spade suit from the opposition. But there are also auctions where responder has to show a four-card spade suit that he could've hidden on the way to game, because opener might still have a fit. For example, say responder has four spades and opener doesn't. Up-the-line bidding you get 1♦-1♥-1NT-3NT and no one knows about responder's spades. Bypassing you get 1♦-1♥-1NT and now responder has to bid checkback to see if opener has four spades, and you end up handing a huge amount of information to the defense (often not just that responder has four spades and opener doesn't, but frequently also extra information about opener's heart and/or diamond length). So you're just trading one auction being more informative for another auction being less so.

Depends on methods - it's not exactly hard to come up with a method that doesn't disclose holdings in suits that responder isn't interested in.

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The concern should be more about "how do we get to better partials when responder is weak" and "how do we make sure that 3NT is declared from the proper side when it is our best contract." Bidding up the line is a clear winner in both those scenarios.

Wow. Strongly disagree on the "better partials" score - missing the occasional 4-4 spade fit to play in 1NT when both hands are balanced is hardly the end of the world. In contrast, showing the general nature of your hand (balanced or not) allows you to judge much better whether to play in opener's suit, responder's suit or no-trumps. Take a hand like xx QJxxx Qx Axxx - if opener rebids 1♠, you'd much rather play in a red suit rather than 1NT (which may well also wrong-side) - but how are you to work out which one?

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(1) After 1♦-1♥-1♠, 2♦ is game force. You have space to relay out opener's entire shape, even if 4243/4324 hands are permitted.

If opener is balanced, you probably want responder to be the one showing shape.

[awm]

Hmm. People seem to be assuming that a 4-6 hand is passing 1NT after 1♦-1♥-1♠-1NT. Honestly this approach would not occur to me. Nor would I pass with a 4-3-5-1.

So the only time when it matters is when opener has 4153/4252/4144. So the "bad" 4144 shape is happening on 1/3 of the relevant hands. Looking at Mikeh and MickyB's examples...

One time in three (of the relevant times) opener has 4144. This leads you to play a 4-3 diamond fit with the three hand being 3433 (Mikeh example) or a 4-2 diamond fit (MickyB example). Really quite awful.

The other two times in three, Mikeh reaches a 5-3 diamond fit. But is this really some great prize? After all, responder's values are mostly in hearts (KQxx) opposite opener's singleton or doubleton. I suspect that these hands will often play better in 1NT than in 2♦ anyway. MickyB reaches a 5-2 diamond fit on these (responder holding QJxxx opposite opener's hearts). I don't even really see why this is better, much less enough to compensate for the very poor contracts reached opposite the 4144.

[Free]

Wackojack, on Nov 11 2009, 01:27 PM, said:

~snip~
Then I read this post:
http://forums.bridge...topic=7310&st=0

~snip~

New resolution: I will always rebid 1♠ unless 4333 Justin-like lol!. Comparing the responses in this post with the 2005 posts, it is interesting to see that opinions are fairly evenly divided and that Justin, Mike on one side and Hog on the other have not changed their views.

I know in the past I said bypass, these days I pretty much always bid 1♠, without clear conviction I must say. I just feel happier about this approach, that's all...