[Cascade]

kgr, on Jul 29 2009, 08:11 PM, said:

Cascade, on Jul 29 2009, 02:46 AM, said:

jillybean, on Jul 29 2009, 12:17 PM, said:

Free, on Jul 28 2009, 10:15 AM, said:

1♠-1NT-4♠

I like this

I hate it.

If you bid this way with this hand how do you bid when you have 18-20 HCP and six spades.

I thought it was 'standard' that 1♠-1NT-4♠ is showing long ♠ and 11-14 pts?

So again I ask, what do you do with real game values?

[mich-b]

Free, on Jul 29 2009, 03:33 AM, said:

1M-1NT-4M is a minimum opener with long M, I think this is standard.  Otherwise just jump in a new suit and get back to 4M, or open 2♣.

I don't think this is standard , and I dont think this is sensible.
If you decide to bid 3♠ , and partner doesnt raise, do you think you will make 10 tricks?
And if not, why rebid 4♠? to get a minus score? or preempt against opps who both already passed, and don't seem keen on getting into the auction?

I would suggest that a very minimum with 7♠ rebids 2♠ , and slightly better hands (14 hcp, or otherwise good) rebid 3♠.
1♠ - 1NT - 4♠ , for me shows a "3♠ rebid hand" with a 7th ♠.

[kgr]

Cascade, on Jul 29 2009, 01:02 PM, said:

kgr, on Jul 29 2009, 08:11 PM, said:

Cascade, on Jul 29 2009, 02:46 AM, said:

jillybean, on Jul 29 2009, 12:17 PM, said:

Free, on Jul 28 2009, 10:15 AM, said:

1♠-1NT-4♠

I like this

I hate it.

If you bid this way with this hand how do you bid when you have 18-20 HCP and six spades.

I thought it was 'standard' that 1♠-1NT-4♠ is showing long ♠ and 11-14 pts?

So again I ask, what do you do with real game values?

In my system I would bid a forcing 2♣ over 1NT.
In standard I would jump to force the bidding and rebid ♠ later (Or jump to 4-level in a singleton).
With a 7- or 8-card ♠ and strong, I probably would have bid in my system either of:
- 4D: namyats
- 2D-2H-3S: Semi-forcing with S
- 3D-3H-3S: GF with S
 
With a real good hand you open 2C in standard. I don't know what you should rebid.
What is 2C-2D-3S; 2C-2D-4S?
 
1S-1NT-4S I would expect an 8-card S and 11-14 pts, but a 7-card is also paossible.

[Cascade]

I know I asked what would you do but I really wanted to know what was standard in context.

1♠ 1NT
2♣ ARTIFICIAL is not standard

I would have thought most beginners were taught

1♠ 1NT
...
2♠ is around 11-15

3♠ is around 16-18

4♠ is around 19-20

All with six spades.

Obviously those numbers are adjusted a little if you have extra spades (or other distribution or texture).

The standard SAYC notes say this:

"With a maximum hand (19-21 or 22 points) opener must make a very strong rebid:
Jump in notrump;
Double jump raise in responder's suit or double jump rebid of opener's suit;
Jump shift in a new suit."

so that a double jump rebid shows a very strong hand.

[Echognome]

Cascade, on Jul 29 2009, 03:02 AM, said:

kgr, on Jul 29 2009, 08:11 PM, said:

Cascade, on Jul 29 2009, 02:46 AM, said:

jillybean, on Jul 29 2009, 12:17 PM, said:

Free, on Jul 28 2009, 10:15 AM, said:

1♠-1NT-4♠

I like this

I hate it.

If you bid this way with this hand how do you bid when you have 18-20 HCP and six spades.

I thought it was 'standard' that 1♠-1NT-4♠ is showing long ♠ and 11-14 pts?

So again I ask, what do you do with real game values?

Wayne,

You have 2NT and 3NT rebids as well as jump shifts to minors, which *gasp* will sometimes be short if no other convenient bid is available.

Suppose you hold:

♠ AQJxxx
♥ Axx
♦ x
♣ AKx

And the bidding goes 1♠ - 1NT; ?

I would happily rebid 3♣. You may dislike the style, but I think it's pretty common in a lot of places (even if it's not popular where you play).

[the hog]

Echognome, on Jul 30 2009, 03:55 AM, said:

Cascade, on Jul 29 2009, 03:02 AM, said:

kgr, on Jul 29 2009, 08:11 PM, said:

Cascade, on Jul 29 2009, 02:46 AM, said:

jillybean, on Jul 29 2009, 12:17 PM, said:

Free, on Jul 28 2009, 10:15 AM, said:

1♠-1NT-4♠

I like this

I hate it.

If you bid this way with this hand how do you bid when you have 18-20 HCP and six spades.

I thought it was 'standard' that 1♠-1NT-4♠ is showing long ♠ and 11-14 pts?

So again I ask, what do you do with real game values?

Wayne,

You have 2NT and 3NT rebids as well as jump shifts to minors, which *gasp* will sometimes be short if no other convenient bid is available.

Suppose you hold:

♠ AQJxxx
♥ Axx
♦ x
♣ AKx

And the bidding goes 1♠ - 1NT; ?

I would happily rebid 3♣. You may dislike the style, but I think it's pretty common in a lot of places (even if it's not popular where you play).

Gnome, why on earth would you not bid 3S with this?

[Cascade]

The_Hog, on Jul 30 2009, 01:00 PM, said:

Echognome, on Jul 30 2009, 03:55 AM, said:

Cascade, on Jul 29 2009, 03:02 AM, said:

kgr, on Jul 29 2009, 08:11 PM, said:

Cascade, on Jul 29 2009, 02:46 AM, said:

jillybean, on Jul 29 2009, 12:17 PM, said:

Free, on Jul 28 2009, 10:15 AM, said:

1♠-1NT-4♠

I like this

I hate it.

If you bid this way with this hand how do you bid when you have 18-20 HCP and six spades.

I thought it was 'standard' that 1♠-1NT-4♠ is showing long ♠ and 11-14 pts?

So again I ask, what do you do with real game values?

Wayne,

You have 2NT and 3NT rebids as well as jump shifts to minors, which *gasp* will sometimes be short if no other convenient bid is available.

Suppose you hold:

♠ AQJxxx
♥ Axx
♦ x
♣ AKx

And the bidding goes 1♠ - 1NT; ?

I would happily rebid 3♣. You may dislike the style, but I think it's pretty common in a lot of places (even if it's not popular where you play).

Gnome, why on earth would you not bid 3S with this?

It looks like a good maximum 3♠ to me.

Yes there might be better methods available for stronger hands but that does not make one's pet gadget standard.

[mike777]

Alexcl, on Jul 28 2009, 10:10 AM, said:

Dealer: South Vul: None Scoring: MP

♠ x ♥ K8xxx ♦ Axxxx ♣ xx ♠ KQ9xxxx ♥   ♦ KJxx ♣ KJ

Opps from passland.

Playing a fairly simple 2/1.

open 4s
MP
next hand pls

[bb79]

I agree with 4♠ openers.

[Echognome]

The_Hog, on Jul 29 2009, 05:00 PM, said:

Gnome, why on earth would you not bid 3S with this?

Too strong in my book, but if you need to make an adjustment, just add, say the ♠T or the ♥Q. Whatever it is you need to do. Perhaps you don't have a hand in your system with this problem, because you would open 2♣.

To each his own.

I was just answering Wayne's question of how you show such a hand in that 18-20 range.

[Echognome]

Cascade, on Jul 29 2009, 06:57 PM, said:

It looks like a good maximum 3♠ to me.

Yes there might be better methods available for stronger hands but that does not make one's pet gadget standard.

I would hardly call it a "pet gadget" and will also go so far as to say it's "standard" in many places.

I think it's somewhat ironic Wayne, that I went out of my way to clarify that this wasn't the style in all places, something you often harp about when the talk becomes ACBL centric, and that you have a hard time acknowledging that there may be a local standard different from what you play.

What gives?