[luke warm]

is this a good idea? it seems that some want testing for even younger children

[helene_t]

A have a financial stake in pediatric pharmaceutics so I am probably biased.

I think it's a bad idea to screen all teens. Leads to too many false positives. Also, what has happened with food allergies and dyslexia is that everyone suffers from it because it is fashionable, and it serves the real sufferers no good that the diagnosis becomes diluted.

And if a child is having a hard time because of some external factor, it may be worth looking into possibilities of removing the external factor before treating it as a problem originating in the child.

I am not aware of any evidence that therapy helps depressed children in general. That I am not aware of it is no strong evidence that it doesn't exist, of course.

This all said it is quite possible that raising awareness of the issue could be helpful. I dunno.

[jdonn]

I think it's a very bad idea. Typical overreaction that won't solve the problem.

[blackshoe]

There is, IMO, a great deal of ignorance about depression, even amongst health care professionals. There is a great deal of hype these days about pharmacological "solutions" to the problem. Frankly, I'm not convinced that pharmaceuticals are the solution - though they may be part of it.

I agree with Helene that testing all teens is not going to help, for the reasons she stated, and also because I'm not convinced that the tests are really all that good at telling us the truth.

[Lobowolf]

Sounds like a bad idea to me, too.

[mtvesuvius]

Bad Idea. The last thing I need is more tests run on me.

[luke warm]

is anyone cynical about this? i think helene hit on something here, the pharmaceutical industry seems to have an awful lot to gain if teens and preteens are tested as part of some wellness exam

[mike777]

luke warm, on Mar 30 2009, 05:23 PM, said:

is anyone cynical about this? i think helene hit on something here, the pharmaceutical industry seems to have an awful lot to gain if teens and preteens are tested as part of some wellness exam

I think what should or should not be part of the wellness exam is an interesting discussion. Doctors perform many expensive tests to reduce the possibility of being sued.

No doubt at somepoint down the road teachers will be taught to look for danger signals in their students when it comes to the issue of depression.


It would be interesting to hear what constitutes an annual wellness exam in countries with Nat. Health Care. As for whether depression should be part of it, my guess is, it is a matter of when not if.

As part of the push towards preventive medicine if we are going to someday go to free full body scans for disease fully paid for by the government, why not include the brain. My guess is that it is just a matter of when.


"CHICAGO - An influential government-appointed medical panel is urging doctors to routinely screen all American teens for depression — a bold step that acknowledges that nearly 2 million teens are affected by this debilitating condition."


"March 30: Nearly 2 million teenagers in the U.S. suffer from clinical depression"

"An estimated 6 percent of U.S. teenagers are clinically depressed"

Side note 2 million teens suffering from Clinical Depression is a very serious health issue.

[jdonn]

luke warm, on Mar 30 2009, 05:23 PM, said:

is anyone cynical about this? i think helene hit on something here, the pharmaceutical industry seems to have an awful lot to gain if teens and preteens are tested as part of some wellness exam

Sure, I agree with what it seems you are implying.

[TimG]

Quote

The group recommends research-tested screening tests even for kids without symptoms. It cited two questionnaires that focus on depression tip-offs, such as mood, anxiety, appetite and substance abuse.

Aren't mood, anxiety, appetite and substance abuse symptoms?

[Hanoi5]

Interesting idea but very problematic implementation.

[helene_t]

luke warm, on Mar 30 2009, 11:23 PM, said:

is anyone cynical about this? i think helene hit on something here, the pharmaceutical industry seems to have an awful lot to gain if teens and preteens are tested as part of some wellness exam

It may be a good way of stimulating the economy. If the growth of the testing-teeners-for-depression-industry can offset the shrinkage of manufacturing, maybe the GDP will stay stable.

[helene_t]

mike777, on Mar 31 2009, 12:29 AM, said:

It would be interesting to hear what constitutes an annual wellness exam in countries with Nat. Health Care.

I think I gave a urine sample once or twice during my primary school years, and also had an eye test once or twice, and was weighted and my body length was measured. I was probably also seen by the GP or a nurse once as a baby, and also I was born in a hospital so at least the midwife must have had a look at me then. That's it. I never saw a health care provider during my secondary school years, other that the dentist which I have been seeing twice a year through most of my life.

[luke warm]

helene_t, on Mar 31 2009, 06:32 AM, said:

mike777, on Mar 31 2009, 12:29 AM, said:

It would be interesting to hear what constitutes an annual wellness exam in countries with Nat. Health Care.

I think I gave a urine sample once or twice during my primary school years, and also had an eye test once or twice, and was weighted and my body length was measured. I was probably also seen by the GP or a nurse once as a baby, and also I was born in a hospital so at least the midwife must have had a look at me then. That's it. I never saw a health care provider during my secondary school years, other that the dentist which I have been seeing twice a year through most of my life.

yes helene, but you probably had a lot less to be depressed about... these days kids have *far* more to worry about

[mike777]

luke warm, on Mar 31 2009, 01:23 PM, said:

helene_t, on Mar 31 2009, 06:32 AM, said:

mike777, on Mar 31 2009, 12:29 AM, said:

It would be interesting to hear what constitutes an annual wellness exam in countries with Nat. Health Care.

I think I gave a urine sample once or twice during my primary school years, and also had an eye test once or twice, and was weighted and my body length was measured. I was probably also seen by the GP or a nurse once as a baby, and also I was born in a hospital so at least the midwife must have had a look at me then. That's it. I never saw a health care provider during my secondary school years, other that the dentist which I have been seeing twice a year through most of my life.

yes helene, but you probably had a lot less to be depressed about... these days kids have *far* more to worry about

I understand clinical depression to be a serious illness.

If one out of twenty teens have a serious illness I am concerned.

"Major depression is a serious medical illness affecting 15 million American adults, or approximately 5 to 8 percent of the adult population in a given year. Unlike normal emotional experiences of sadness, loss, or passing mood states, major depression is persistent and can significantly interfere with an individual’s thoughts, behavior, mood, activity, and physical health. Among all medical illnesses, major depression is the leading cause of disability in the U.S. and many other developed countries.

Depression occurs twice as frequently in women as in men, for reasons that are not fully understood. More than half of those who experience a single episode of depression will continue to have episodes that occur as frequently as once or even twice a year. Without treatment, the frequency of depressive illness as well as the severity of symptoms tends to increase over time. Left untreated, depression can lead to suicide."

"What are the causes of major depression?

There is no single cause of major depression. Psychological, biological, and environmental factors may all contribute to its development. Whatever the specific causes of depression, scientific research has firmly established that major depression is a biological, medical illness.

Norepinephrine, serotonin, and dopamine are three neurotransmitters (chemical messengers that transmit electrical signals between brain cells) thought to be involved with major depression. Scientists believe that if there is a chemical imbalance in these neurotransmitters, then clinical states of depression result. Antidepressant medications work by increasing the availability of neurotransmitters or by changing the sensitivity of the receptors for these chemical messengers.

Scientists have also found evidence of a genetic predisposition to major depression. There is an increased risk for developing depression when there is a family history of the illness. Not everyone with a genetic predisposition develops depression, but some people probably have a biological make-up that leaves them particularly vulnerable to developing depression. Life events, such as the death of a loved one, a major loss or change, chronic stress, and alcohol and drug abuse, may trigger episodes of depression. Some illnesses such as heart disease and cancer and some medications may also trigger depressive episodes. It is also important to note that many depressive episodes occur spontaneously and are not triggered by a life crisis, physical illness, or other risks."


http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=B...&ContentID=7725

[mike777]

Hopefully over the next 20 years dramatic improvements in brain imaging and more fully understanding how the brain works will improve diagnostic tools and treatment methods.


"Most are undiagnosed and untreated, said the panel, the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force, which sets guidelines for doctors on a host of health issues."

[barmar]

My father had a similar distrust of vaccines (and the medical industry in general -- he was a chiropractor before he became a businessman). He thought mandatory vaccination programs for children were mostly a conspiracy between the government and drug companies. I don't go that far, although I'll bet the drug lobby had a strong hand in getting those laws passed. But I've never bothered getting a flu shot, either. I'm not sure what vaccines, if any, I got as a child. I had chicken pox when I was a kid and measles while I was in college, but other than that I don't think I've ever had more than a bad cold.

I attribute being so disease free primarily to not being around children much, they're probably one of the biggest germ vectors. Interestingly, I think at least half my colds happen when I return from an NABC. I have a few suspicions why: 1) being around so many people, many of whom are probably carrying something; 2) lots of germs get passed around on the playing cards; 3) spending several hours in the cabin of a plane, in close proximity to all those random people and with air circulating among them.